naming the next major release

[Martin Graesslin]

On Wednesday 21 August 2013 13:52:06 Daniel Nicoletti wrote:
> 2013/8/21 Martin Graesslin <mgraesslin at kde.org>:
> > On Wednesday 21 August 2013 11:29:52 Daniel Nicoletti wrote:
> >> My 2c,
> >> 
> >> On KDE 4 aka KDE SC 4, plasma was always just plasma,
> >> no user says I'm using the plasma shell (as there isn't another
> >> KDE option).
> > 
> > this might change. Consider Razor/LXDE joining the KDE umbrella. What
> > then?
> > From one day to another it would be obvious that using "the KDE desktop"
> > is
> > not working any more.
> 
> In that case what we will end up is with just KDE libraries? I mean
> people are used to "install/use KDE" which means the SC.
no?!? I fail to see what you want to tell us, I cannot follow your thought. I 
guess it's based on you still think that KDE is not the community but all the 
software we tend to release once half a year.
> 
> If we are going to drop the "KDE desktop" then imho it should
> be better to put some marketing on the "Plasma desktop"
> which uses KDE technology.
We haven't marketed a "KDE desktop" for years now.
> 
> The same imho happens to Razor/LXDE, they will keep being
> Razor/LXDE maybe using KDE pieces. At some point KDE
> might vanish completely as the more things from the
> frameworks are upstreamed (not that this is bad!).
Why should KDE vanish if Razor uses frameworks? I fail to follow your 
reasoning.
> 
> This of course end up being completely ok with the new
> KDE = comunity branding which to me is a shame that
> the shell looses it's identity. I somehow imagine in the
> future people talking about plasma people or lxde people
> and the KDE name being left only for frameworks.
Why should they only talk about Plasma?
> 
> Of course I'm just supposing.
> 
> > I'm in fact aware of at least three desktop shells by the KDE community.
> > The only thing those three share is the window manager.
> 
> But at some level "the" KDE shell is plasma, and if these others want
> to be known
> the have to do the promoting themselves.
Just for the record: one of the three desktop shells I meant is Plasma :-) As 
far as I know the other shells don't want to be promoted, but they would get 
obviously the same level of promotion. The dot is open to every KDE project.
> 
> > Given that we know that we want to open us for more projects and that we
> > want to get our technologies into other Qt based desktops, it would be a
> > really bad idea to ignore this fact when we do the planning for the next
> > version.
> No, I'm not saying to ignore this fact. It's just that imho
> the idea of pushing Plasma to version 5 is bad for the
> reasons I mentioned. If plasma will keep being included
> into KDE SC the SC version is what users see.
I really have problems understanding your arguments. They seem to be centered 
around "I don't like the renaming of KDE, thus I do not like this". I think 
the renaming was a good step and reflects much better what we as a community 
do. I can only recommend to open up on it and see the positive aspects of it.
> 
> An example is that when someone fill a bug against
> say print-manager I care which KDE version they have
> and not if p-m is at version 0.3, because I know which
> version was included in that SC.
then you should fix this. In KWin we include also information about kdelibs 
version (compilation, runtime) and Qt. It helps a lot.

Personal remark: I sometimes have problems following your arguments and 
recently I had the feeling that you jump to wrong conclusions based on 
incorrect and incomplete data. I think this is also here the case. You jump 
directly to the conclusion but seem to miss the reasons and the good 
advantages of the renaming of KDE. Just look at the manifesto - without the 
renaming that would not have happened. As you have not been at Akademy I 
recommend to watch the recordings of Kevin's keynote.

Cheers
Martin
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 198 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part.
URL: <http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/plasma-devel/attachments/20130821/fd67ca03/attachment.sig>