Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

[Mark]

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Martin Gräßlin <mgraesslin at kde.org> wrote:

> Hi Mihai,
>
> there has already been a lengthy discussion about breadcrumbs in Kickoff
> back
> in December [1].
>
> I don't think anyone is interested in having yet another discussion about
> that
> topic.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Martin Gräßlin
>
> [1] http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/plasma-devel/2011-December/018184.html
>
> On Thursday 15 March 2012 11:20:43 Mihai Dobrescu wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > IMHO, when a user makes a request, he will not perform a market study
> > on his demand. He knows his needs and he doesn't ask, nor speaks, for
> > other users hand.
> > I feel an important amount of stress from the developers part,
> > regarding the code involved. From the user part this is unknown. As
> > professional developer, the easy to use a feature is, the harder might
> > be to implement in the code. When I became software developer, I've
> > sworn to satisfy my customers, of course when possible and within the
> > feasible limits. So, I would not reject a requested feature unless I
> > have good technical reasons to prevent it, based on the argument of
> > complexity of code. Of course, maintenance is a good reason to reject
> > when not enough resources are present, in order to support that
> > feature (is this the case?).
> >
> > So, as KDE user, I can't give any statistics, polls, whatever in favor
> > or against this button.
> > I just _feel_ it is better than breadcrumbs for _me_. It is _natural_ to
> > _me_. Form _my_ point of view, breadcrumbs are also useful, as a
> shortcut,
> > when I need to jump over some elements in the path.
> > So, the back button and breadcrumbs, although seem redundant, they are
> > not, _to me_.
> > I would use the 'back' button in 90% of cases.
> > It is the very same case with Dolphin (the 'Up' button vs the path
> > breadcrumbs), again, _for me_.
> >
> > BTW, not all users that miss the button will complain.
> > Some devs say that these messages are lose of time for them. I can say
> > using the breadcrumbs in the KickOff menu make me losing time too, for
> > the sole reason it is unnatural _to me_ to use it there.
> > Also, user feedback is not a lose of time.
> >
> > Although not many users express their gratitude for the developers
> > work, because, _it seems_, the human nature is to complain about
> > things not working or things not done.
> > Sometimes it should happen. I _need_ to tell you, all the KDE team,
> > that I love your work, some may say _imperfect_, but _great_ I say,
> > knowing the effort you put in keeping it as close as possible to our
> > needs.
> > KDE is, _in my opinion_, well designed, flexible to be extended, clean
> > and visually appealing. And OPEN.
> > Making Plasma and Plasmoids is a good move. It's in the spirit of
> > Linux and its customizability. I hope you keep up this good work for
> > long.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Mike.
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Plasma-devel at kde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
>
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>
Martin,

Things have changed quite a bit between the last discussion and now. Back
then the KDE version had both the breadcrumbs and the back button. Right
now we have a new KDE version that only has the breadcrumbs. So now is the
time when users start noticing something is different and that they perhaps
might miss something or not.

Back in December i fully agreed with you that the back button is redundant
and the breadcrumbs can be used just as well. However, right now since  KDE
4.8 was released I'm slowly realizing i miss something in the menu. I miss
an option to just go back.

No, i'm not trying to convince you that we need the full vertical bar back
to go back, that really seemed totally out of place anyway. But right now i
do think that having a back button would be better. The breadcrumbbar does
allow you to go back, but it's kinda making me thing when i press it "where
do i need to go back to, main menu or.." and i don't want to think about
that in a menu! I just want to go back.

Right now, to me, it even seems like the breadcrumbbar is out of place in a
menu. It's nice but just not working intuitively in a menu.
Perhaps we do need to have a new fresh discussion about it since the impact
is just becoming clear to the kde users now and in the coming months when
the next (K)Ubuntu and Fedora get released. Perhaps a topic on the kde
forum should be created.

You might think the back button is of no use, but others might think
differently. The discussion in december has shown that, now it's boiling up
again and it will boil up more once Kubuntu and Fedora have their next
release. The old situation wasn't perfect, but the current situation is not
perfect as well. We need something in between.

Kind regards,
Mark
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