netbook irc meeting

[Marco Martin]

On Sunday 20 September 2009, Marco Martin wrote:
> On Thursday 17 September 2009, Marco Martin wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > since i want to do the netbook shell as good as possible, i'm interested
> > to hear opinions and directions from you guys =D
> >
> > i would like to have a little irc meeting about it, to discuss some of
> > the issues there still are  in the current implementation, possible
> > topics are: -point of the situation, what actually are the issues :)
> > -integration with the system, like with kwin, and how to start a netbook
> > session
> > -default applets layout, what to put in the containments
> > -look and feel: how should actually look from a designe pov
> > -priorities: what is really important for 4.4, what can be 4.5
> >
> > more implementation details, not really metting topics:
> > -how to loadthe default layout: hardcode/vs default config fie/vs
> > scripting -what are the ugly spots in the code and things like that
> >
> > could be done? what do you think?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Marco Martin
>
> in the end being aaron and nuno-less there wasn't much going on, however me
> and arthur chatted a bit about the various parts for a bit, here is the
> unfiltered log that can at least make a recap of the topics if we can make
> a "good one" :)

little synopsys, topics were mostly what we more urgently need for 4.4:
*Panel:
  -default applets: now there are  current window control, activitybar, 
spacer, systray, search field for sal
  - i would swap current window control and the search field
  - connected to the ability to have multiple "pages" (just tought about it 
now) a button after activitybar that creates a new newspaper activity
  - other thing not touched there but to be decided: panel autohide or not?
  - search field for sal: since the sal has a search field by itself i would 
do:
     -make it no longer a popupapplet so i can access the dialog geometry
     -make the dialog be exactly superimposed to the sal internel search field 
to make it feel they are the "same thing"

*Newspaper
  -titles: on mouse over like applet handles or always there? (applet handles 
like would be waay simpler code, less clobbering with layouts)

> [19:04] <igorto> notmart, MoRpHeUz me and Savago are talking about a
> personal layout .. using akonadi(akonadi dataengine maybe)
> [19:04] <Savago> tumaix, just FISL. But it was great. Meet with lots of
> former co-workers there. :-)
> [19:05] <notmart> igorto, MoRpHeUz: the social activity thing?
> [19:05] <MoRpHeUz> igorto: ?
> [19:05] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I don't think it's the same thing hehe
> [19:05] <notmart> ah, ok
> [19:06] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I was thinking more about OCS and Silk, but
> yeah, for other "contact" stuff we should use akonadi for sure
> [19:06] <igorto> notmart, no ... a layout for contacts(vcard), notes,
> todos, with google synchronization and these things
> [19:06] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: that's looks like just a default applets
> layout, really
> [19:06] <Savago> yep. The good thing is that all this stuff is already done
> by akonadi (protocols, data formats, etc).
> [19:06] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I really don't care about the layout of the
> stuff....can be newspaper, default applets layout, etc...
> [19:07] <notmart> for silk, i wanted to do a mini-selkie plasmoid that
> opens the full selkie..
> [19:07] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I'm more interested about the *contents* of the
> thing hehe
> [19:07] <Savago> MoRpHeUz, what were you planning for the *contents*?
> [19:07] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: so the question becomes: do we already have all
> the plasmoids we need?
> [19:08] <notmart> for default layout i was meaning, what sets of plasmoid
> should be loaded by default
> [19:08] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: that's one problem, I think that right now the
> number of "default plamoids" that we should have are growing, and that's
> why a separate activity would be needed
> [19:09] <MoRpHeUz> (imagine a scenario with 15 contact plasmoids)
> [19:09] <MoRpHeUz> Savago: something like what you said above, but not
> centered on akonadi stuff
> [19:09] <MoRpHeUz> something more like what moblin provides
> [19:09] <MoRpHeUz> (and open desktop widget)
> [19:09] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yes, but also keep in mind that having an awful
> load of stuff loaded by default makes the memory footprint pretty big
> [19:10] <notmart> and if it is the user that adds stuff is ok, but there
> shouldn't be the impression that as default is really bloated
> [19:10] <Savago> MoRpHeUz, I see.
> [19:10] * pinheiro nost sure i like a big page of plasmoids or several
> pages [19:11] <notmart> we should also have a way to add/remove pages that
> possibly isn't the zui there..
> [19:11] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yep, I'm talking about the user adding stuff
> (after all, it's the users contacts)
> [19:12] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: so, as pinheiro pointed out it's a matter of
> having a big page of plasmoids or several pages...
> [19:12] <-- fawek has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset
> by peer)).
> [19:12] <pinheiro> notmart: maybe scrolingn trough pages is more
> interesting than the zui here
> [19:12] <pinheiro> more phinger friendly
> [19:13] <notmart> what i'm more concerned for this meeting however, is to
> really have clear in mind what is a must have for 4.4 and must be rushed in
> quickly :D
> [19:13] <pinheiro> and as space manegemenat is simpler for the user
> [19:13] <notmart> pinheiro: a single long page that scrolls?
> [19:14] <pinheiro> notmart: no several pages
> [19:14] <pinheiro> that you can push
> [19:14] <pinheiro> slide
> [19:14] <pinheiro> like desktops
> [19:14] <-- nhnFreespirit has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection
> timed out)).
> [19:15] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: well, for 4.4 I think that having what we
> currently have but really stable and a way to easily switch between netbook
> and desktop shells....
> [19:15] <MoRpHeUz> it would be ok for the "first release"
> [19:15] * pinheiro agfreas
> [19:16] <pinheiro> agreas
> [19:16] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: and then the social stuff for later, to really
> improve the user experience...
> [19:16] <notmart> the sliding animation could be a problem since we aren't
> sure the pages on the scene are in the right order..
> [19:16] * pinheiro off be back much later good luck guys
> [19:16] <notmart> but i can think about several hacks to do that
> [19:17] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: so let's start about what plasmoids we want in
> the panel in what order and in the newspaper by default?
> [19:17] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ah, it would be nice to have remote widgets 
> for 4.4 too....
> [19:17] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ok :)
> [19:17] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: i actually never looked into it but don't they
> work already?
> [19:18] --> nhnFreespirit has joined this channel
> (n=quassel at 0x5552cc2f.adsl.cybercity.dk).
> [19:18] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ow yeah, I was reffering to widgets explorer
> supporting them :) sorry hehe :P
> [19:19] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: ok, for that we just need more whip for
> annieC_away so :p
> [19:22] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yeeepp hehehe :P
> [19:23] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: so now in the panel:
> [19:24] <notmart> there is the current window control, an activity bar, a
> spacer, a systray and the search thinghie
> [19:24] <MoRpHeUz> ouch /me needs to type faster hehe
> [19:24] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I think that only the battery is missing...what
> do you think ?
> [19:25] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: in the systray?
> [19:25] <MoRpHeUz> can be...
> [19:25] --> uwolfer has joined this channel (n=uwolfer at 195.190.176.114).
> [19:25] <notmart> now the systray has a qaction that loads the default
> plasmoids in it that are the device notifier and the battery (if there is a
> battery)
> [19:26] <MoRpHeUz> ow yes! device notifier are pretty important for
> netbooks! ;)
> [19:26] <notmart> in plasma that the default layout is loaded by a c++
> function that action is already called
> [19:26] <notmart> in the netbook that we have a config file is harder
> [19:27] --> mt19 has joined this channel (n=mark at port-183-
> pool-91-187-5.infonet.by).
> [19:27] <tumaix> anybody can review some modifications that I did to
> kcolourpicker plasma addon?
> [19:27] <notmart> i think i'll have to iterate all the panel applets after
> a config restore and call that action
> [19:27] <notmart> tumaix: are they on reviewboard?
> [19:28] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: can't we use the new JS stuff from aseigo to
> correctly setup this ?
> [19:28] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: i was thinking about that the current window
> control could be in the last position?
> [19:28] <tumaix> notmart: no, I just created the diff.
> [19:28] <tumaix> how can I send to reviewboard?
> [19:29] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yeah, i was thinking about that, i still didn't
> take a look at the code, so i'm not sure how to d o it but i should try
> [19:29] <Savago> tumaix, http://reviewboard.kde.org​
> [19:29] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: if the current window control will be in the
> last position, where do we put the searchbox ?
> [19:29] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: i think it should be used for loading the
> default icons in the sal main icon grid too intead of the horrid hardcoded
> thing there is now
> [19:30] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: first?
> [19:30] <notmart> tumaix: just upload the patch to reviewboard.kde.org
> [19:30] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: could be...but I think that both should be at
> "corners" hehe :)
> [19:30] <notmart> yes, first position in the left
> [19:30] <notmart> just to have the close window button where it always was
> [19:31] <-- jpwhiting has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection
> reset by peer)).
> [19:31] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ;)
> [19:31] <MoRpHeUz> agreed
> [19:31] <notmart> only thing it concerns me is that clicking on the current
> window thing it calls present windows, but also putting the mouse in the
> top left corner
> [19:32] <notmart> so that is what made me decide for top left in the first
> place..
> [19:33] --> jpwhiting has joined this channel
> (n=jeremy at kde/developer/whiting).
> [19:33] <tumaix> notmart: Unable to parse diff revision header '(revisão
> 1026053)
> [19:33] <tumaix> ?!
> [19:34] <notmart> tumaix: uuh, crud yeah
> [19:34] <notmart> reviewboard is so stupid that requires diffs headers in
> english :/
> [19:34] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ok, and what about newspaper layout (defaults)
> ? [19:34] <tumaix> ok, I will change the diff to english
> [19:35] --> metlos has joined this channel
> (n=metlos at ip4-83-240-61-56.cust.nbox.cz).
> [19:35] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: ugly thing is that i think pretty much all we
> need here are in kdeplasma-addons
> [19:35] <notmart> rss, weather, opendesktop and opendesktop knowledge base
> as default set?
> [19:36] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ouch =/ yep...almost all of them are in
> kdeplasma- addons.. =/
> [19:38] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: they should be added checking first the plugin
> is installed, to avoid a page full of failedtolauch applets...
> [19:38] <notmart> and i don't see non c++ ways to do that
> [19:39] <notmart> (making queries to servicetrader first)
> [19:39] <tumaix> notmart: 'base diff path'. what should I put here? I'v
> tried kdeplasma-addons/applets/kolourpicker/
> [19:39] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yep, probably we'll endup with c++ or js to do
> this (/me really needs to take a look at that api)
> [19:40] <notmart> tumaix: if you ran svn diff in kdeplasma-
> addons/applets/kolourpicker/ the base path is /trunk/KDE/kdeplasma-
> addons/applets/kolourpicker
> [19:41] <-- zzAMzz has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
> [19:41] <-- giucam has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
> [19:41] <tumaix> thanks, doing the rest of the review request
> [19:42] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: as for default set those four are good to you?
> [19:43] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yes....calendar/comic/notes are a little bit
> "bleh" for defaults...so I agree with those 4...
> [19:43] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: for 4.5 we can have something nicer for the
> social stuff
> [19:44] <-- sayakb has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
> [19:44] <notmart> the calsendar could become interesting when will be
> integrated with akonady to display appointments
> [19:44] --> sayakb has joined this channel
> (n=sayakb at ubuntu/member/kde.sayakb).
> [19:46] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: anoter thing that should be done for 4.4, the
> title strips in the newspaper containment..
> [19:46] <notmart> oh, another thing before that..
> [19:47] <MoRpHeUz> title strips++ and a way to show the new icon that you
> added to app handle
> [19:47] <MoRpHeUz> applet handle
> [19:47] <notmart> displaying a "title" is a bit a problem
> [19:47] <notmart> since the applets don't have this data
> [19:48] <notmart> just a generic name that is a bit meaningless
> [19:49] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: maybe we should improve applet's visible names
> ? [19:49] <notmart> should they always be shown or appear/disappear like
> the applet handles?
> [19:49] <MoRpHeUz> hhmmm
> [19:50] <MoRpHeUz> maybe appear on mouse hover ? (I don't like this idea
> much) [19:50] <notmart> what idea? to always be there or mouseover?
> [19:51] --> mat69 has joined this channel (n=kde-deve at 93.83.106.50).
> [19:51] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: mouseover
> [19:52] <bugbot> New plasma (general) bug 208008 filed by
> alpha_one_x86 at first- world.info​.
> [19:52] <bugbot> Bug https://bugs.kde.org/208008​ normal, NOR, UNCONFIRMED,
> Bug in notifier with special click
> [19:52] <notmart> would be perhaps a bit easier since havin elements that
> aren't the applets in the layout complicated the thing a bit
> [19:52] <-- generatorglukoff has left this server ("Ухожу я от вас (xchat
> 2.4.5 или старше)").
> [19:52] * notmart remember he tried and failed, having all titles stacked
> up before the applets :p
> [19:53] <bugbot> New plasma (general) bug 208009 filed by
> eantoranz at gmail.com​ .
> [19:53] <bugbot> Bug https://bugs.kde.org/208009​ wishlist, NOR,
> UNCONFIRMED, new icons on system tray: more elegant way to show/hide them
> [19:53] <MoRpHeUz> hehe
> [19:53] <annieC_away> pastebin is crashing plasma...
> [19:53] *** annieC_away is now known as annieC.
> [19:53] --> randomguy3 has joined this channel
> (n=alex at 88-106-248-221.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com).
> [19:54] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: combobox problem ? already fixed
> [19:54] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: you tried to paste an image, didn't you ?
> [19:54] <-- mt19 has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed
> out)).
> [19:54] <annieC> i did
> [19:54] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: it's already fixed in trunk
> [19:54] <annieC> nice :)
> [19:55] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: we have a job for you :)
> [19:55] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: integrate remote widgets in widgets explorer :)
> [19:55] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: job is done ;)
> [19:55] <MoRpHeUz> (our job, that is keep poking she hehehe)
> [19:55] <annieC> yeah, i read something about whips
> [19:55] <notmart> eheh :)
> [19:55] <MoRpHeUz> hehehehe
> [19:56] <annieC> haha, i'll do it. but no whips please
> [19:56] <annieC> hey
> [19:56] <MoRpHeUz> :)
> [19:56] <annieC> what do you think about
> [19:56] <annieC> hiding panel controller
> [19:56] * MoRpHeUz needs to get his car and have lunch...
> [19:56] <annieC> when changing the panels location?
> [19:57] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: anything else that we should decide today ?
> [19:57] <tumaix> may I poke her too?
> [19:57] <MoRpHeUz> tumaix: sure :)
> [19:57] <MoRpHeUz> my pleasure :)
> [19:57] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: just an opinion:
> [19:57] * tumaix pokes annieC
> [19:57] <notmart> the search field in the panel:
> [19:57] <tumaix> wee
> [19:57] <notmart> i wanted to do the following:
> [19:58] <notmart> -no more a popupapplet, use always a popup
> [19:58] <annieC> tumaix: don't!
> [19:58] <notmart> -the sal has a search field by itself now
> [19:58] <notmart> -make the search field of the panel applet exactly
> overlapping the one in the containment
> [19:58] <annieC> i get angry easily
> [19:58] <annieC> :P
> [19:59] --> fawek has joined this channel
> (n=faw at chello089079021184.chello.pl).
> [19:59] <notmart> so it really seems the same thing
> [19:59] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: what do you think?
> [19:59] <-- moofang has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset
> by peer)).
> [19:59] <annieC> hey, listen. look what's happening to panelcontroller when
> I move the panel to another edge: http://imagebin.org/64564​
> [19:59] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: you mean, making it apper in the same location
> as the containment's one ?
> [19:59] <annieC> notmart: MoRpHeUz: tumaix
> [20:00] <tumaix> people, I'm with a small problem. I just set the name of
> an action to "Latex Colours", but the text() is returning "&Latex Colours",
> how can I get rid of that & permanently, in a i18n safe way?
> [20:00] <tumaix> annieC: don't be angry, be cute. ;D
> [20:00] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yes
> [20:00] <notmart> (thing that i don't think i can with a popupapplet by the
> way)
> [20:01] <annieC> not if people keep poking me :)
> [20:01] *** sreich is now known as sreich2.
> [20:01] *** sreich2 is now known as sreich.
> [20:01] <annieC> listen to me people. panelcontroller is mad
> [20:01] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: seems nice...but how would you know the
> position of the search box in the containment ?
> [20:02] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: eh, we'll have to expand the dataengine :)
> [20:02] <annieC> aseigo: ping
> [20:02] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ;) just what I thought hahahaha :)
> [20:03] <notmart> so both the applet and the containment will use both the
> dataengine and the service part.. sounds a bit pervert but could work :)
> [20:03] <insanity> markey is a pervert too *spanks markey*
> [20:03] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yep, seems nice....we just need to be sure that
> the user *sees*  that the focus is on the input field...to not get lost
> about "magic" being done hehe ;)
> [20:03] <notmart> insanity is genious :)
> [20:04] <CIA-5> bettio * r1026064 plasma/trunk/kdereview/plasma/applets/
> (CMakeLists.txt blackboard/): Moving blackboard to kdeplasma-addons.
> [20:04] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: huahuahuahuahua
> [20:04] <notmart> ah, yeah, i should also deuglyfy the plasma lineedit to
> have a bit of a clue on the focus :)
> [20:04] <MoRpHeUz> insanity++
> [20:04] <insanity> thanks :)
> [20:05] --> mt19 has joined this channel (n=mark at port-231-
> pool-91-187-11.infonet.by).
> [20:05] <notmart> ~order party
> [20:05] * insanity slides party down the bar to notmart
> [20:05] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: we can add this stuff to the wiki so we can
> work in all this stuff together...
> [20:05] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yes..
> [20:06] <notmart> the sal will have to be untouchable for a while, it's the
> second time i make a conflict with uncommitted aseigo stuff :)
> [20:06] <MoRpHeUz> hehehe....yeah, sure :)
> [20:07] --> tsdgeos has joined this channel (n=tsdgeos at kde/aacid).
> [20:07] * MoRpHeUz hugs aseigo and notmart
> [20:07] <tsdgeos> is camuffo around?
> [20:07] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: hey, I'll be back in a few minutes..need to get
> the car and eat something hehe :)
> [20:07] --> leeo has joined this channel
> (n=lee at 97-116-99-149.mpls.qwest.net). [20:07] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: see you!
> :)


-- 
Marco Martin