netbook irc meeting

[Marco Martin]

On Thursday 17 September 2009, Marco Martin wrote:
> Hi all,
> since i want to do the netbook shell as good as possible, i'm interested to
> hear opinions and directions from you guys =D
>
> i would like to have a little irc meeting about it, to discuss some of the
> issues there still are  in the current implementation, possible topics are:
> -point of the situation, what actually are the issues :)
> -integration with the system, like with kwin, and how to start a netbook
> session
> -default applets layout, what to put in the containments
> -look and feel: how should actually look from a designe pov
> -priorities: what is really important for 4.4, what can be 4.5
>
> more implementation details, not really metting topics:
> -how to loadthe default layout: hardcode/vs default config fie/vs scripting
> -what are the ugly spots in the code and things like that
>
> could be done? what do you think?
>
> Cheers,
> Marco Martin

in the end being aaron and nuno-less there wasn't much going on, however me 
and arthur chatted a bit about the various parts for a bit, here is the 
unfiltered log that can at least make a recap of the topics if we can make a 
"good one" :)

[19:04] <igorto> notmart, MoRpHeUz me and Savago are talking about a personal 
layout .. using akonadi(akonadi dataengine maybe)
[19:04] <Savago> tumaix, just FISL. But it was great. Meet with lots of former 
co-workers there. :-)
[19:05] <notmart> igorto, MoRpHeUz: the social activity thing?
[19:05] <MoRpHeUz> igorto: ?
[19:05] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I don't think it's the same thing hehe
[19:05] <notmart> ah, ok
[19:06] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I was thinking more about OCS and Silk, but yeah, 
for other "contact" stuff we should use akonadi for sure
[19:06] <igorto> notmart, no ... a layout for contacts(vcard), notes, todos, 
with google synchronization and these things
[19:06] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: that's looks like just a default applets layout, 
really
[19:06] <Savago> yep. The good thing is that all this stuff is already done by 
akonadi (protocols, data formats, etc).
[19:06] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I really don't care about the layout of the 
stuff....can be newspaper, default applets layout, etc...
[19:07] <notmart> for silk, i wanted to do a mini-selkie plasmoid that opens 
the full selkie..
[19:07] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I'm more interested about the *contents* of the 
thing hehe
[19:07] <Savago> MoRpHeUz, what were you planning for the *contents*?
[19:07] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: so the question becomes: do we already have all 
the plasmoids we need?
[19:08] <notmart> for default layout i was meaning, what sets of plasmoid 
should be loaded by default
[19:08] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: that's one problem, I think that right now the 
number of "default plamoids" that we should have are growing, and that's why a 
separate activity would be needed
[19:09] <MoRpHeUz> (imagine a scenario with 15 contact plasmoids)
[19:09] <MoRpHeUz> Savago: something like what you said above, but not 
centered on akonadi stuff
[19:09] <MoRpHeUz> something more like what moblin provides
[19:09] <MoRpHeUz> (and open desktop widget)
[19:09] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yes, but also keep in mind that having an awful 
load of stuff loaded by default makes the memory footprint pretty big
[19:10] <notmart> and if it is the user that adds stuff is ok, but there 
shouldn't be the impression that as default is really bloated
[19:10] <Savago> MoRpHeUz, I see.
[19:10] * pinheiro nost sure i like a big page of plasmoids or several pages
[19:11] <notmart> we should also have a way to add/remove pages that possibly 
isn't the zui there..
[19:11] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yep, I'm talking about the user adding stuff 
(after all, it's the users contacts)
[19:12] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: so, as pinheiro pointed out it's a matter of 
having a big page of plasmoids or several pages...
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[19:12] <pinheiro> notmart: maybe scrolingn trough pages is more interesting 
than the zui here
[19:12] <pinheiro> more phinger friendly
[19:13] <notmart> what i'm more concerned for this meeting however, is to 
really have clear in mind what is a must have for 4.4 and must be rushed in 
quickly :D
[19:13] <pinheiro> and as space manegemenat is simpler for the user
[19:13] <notmart> pinheiro: a single long page that scrolls?
[19:14] <pinheiro> notmart: no several pages
[19:14] <pinheiro> that you can push
[19:14] <pinheiro> slide
[19:14] <pinheiro> like desktops
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[19:15] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: well, for 4.4 I think that having what we 
currently have but really stable and a way to easily switch between netbook 
and desktop shells....
[19:15] <MoRpHeUz> it would be ok for the "first release"
[19:15] * pinheiro agfreas
[19:16] <pinheiro> agreas
[19:16] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: and then the social stuff for later, to really 
improve the user experience...
[19:16] <notmart> the sliding animation could be a problem since we aren't 
sure the pages on the scene are in the right order..
[19:16] * pinheiro off be back much later good luck guys
[19:16] <notmart> but i can think about several hacks to do that
[19:17] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: so let's start about what plasmoids we want in the 
panel in what order and in the newspaper by default?
[19:17] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ah, it would be nice to have remote widgets  for 
4.4 too....
[19:17] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ok :)
[19:17] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: i actually never looked into it but don't they 
work already?
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[19:18] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ow yeah, I was reffering to widgets explorer 
supporting them :) sorry hehe :P
[19:19] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: ok, for that we just need more whip for 
annieC_away so :p
[19:22] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yeeepp hehehe :P
[19:23] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: so now in the panel:
[19:24] <notmart> there is the current window control, an activity bar, a 
spacer, a systray and the search thinghie
[19:24] <MoRpHeUz> ouch /me needs to type faster hehe
[19:24] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I think that only the battery is missing...what do 
you think ?
[19:25] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: in the systray?
[19:25] <MoRpHeUz> can be...
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[19:25] <notmart> now the systray has a qaction that loads the default 
plasmoids in it that are the device notifier and the battery (if there is a 
battery)
[19:26] <MoRpHeUz> ow yes! device notifier are pretty important for netbooks! 
;)
[19:26] <notmart> in plasma that the default layout is loaded by a c++ 
function that action is already called
[19:26] <notmart> in the netbook that we have a config file is harder
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[19:27] <tumaix> anybody can review some modifications that I did to 
kcolourpicker plasma addon?
[19:27] <notmart> i think i'll have to iterate all the panel applets after a 
config restore and call that action
[19:27] <notmart> tumaix: are they on reviewboard?
[19:28] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: can't we use the new JS stuff from aseigo to 
correctly setup this ?
[19:28] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: i was thinking about that the current window 
control could be in the last position?
[19:28] <tumaix> notmart: no, I just created the diff.
[19:28] <tumaix> how can I send to reviewboard?
[19:29] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yeah, i was thinking about that, i still didn't 
take a look at the code, so i'm not sure how to d o it but i should try
[19:29] <Savago> tumaix, http://reviewboard.kde.org​
[19:29] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: if the current window control will be in the last 
position, where do we put the searchbox ?
[19:29] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: i think it should be used for loading the default 
icons in the sal main icon grid too intead of the horrid hardcoded thing there 
is now
[19:30] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: first?
[19:30] <notmart> tumaix: just upload the patch to reviewboard.kde.org
[19:30] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: could be...but I think that both should be at 
"corners" hehe :)
[19:30] <notmart> yes, first position in the left
[19:30] <notmart> just to have the close window button where it always was
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[19:31] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ;)
[19:31] <MoRpHeUz> agreed
[19:31] <notmart> only thing it concerns me is that clicking on the current 
window thing it calls present windows, but also putting the mouse in the top 
left corner
[19:32] <notmart> so that is what made me decide for top left in the first 
place..
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[19:33] <tumaix> notmart: Unable to parse diff revision header '(revisão 
1026053)
[19:33] <tumaix> ?!
[19:34] <notmart> tumaix: uuh, crud yeah
[19:34] <notmart> reviewboard is so stupid that requires diffs headers in 
english :/
[19:34] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ok, and what about newspaper layout (defaults) ?
[19:34] <tumaix> ok, I will change the diff to english
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[19:35] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: ugly thing is that i think pretty much all we need 
here are in kdeplasma-addons
[19:35] <notmart> rss, weather, opendesktop and opendesktop knowledge base as 
default set?
[19:36] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ouch =/ yep...almost all of them are in kdeplasma-
addons.. =/
[19:38] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: they should be added checking first the plugin is 
installed, to avoid a page full of failedtolauch applets...
[19:38] <notmart> and i don't see non c++ ways to do that
[19:39] <notmart> (making queries to servicetrader first)
[19:39] <tumaix> notmart: 'base diff path'. what should I put here? I'v tried 
kdeplasma-addons/applets/kolourpicker/
[19:39] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yep, probably we'll endup with c++ or js to do 
this (/me really needs to take a look at that api)
[19:40] <notmart> tumaix: if you ran svn diff in kdeplasma-
addons/applets/kolourpicker/ the base path is /trunk/KDE/kdeplasma-
addons/applets/kolourpicker
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[19:41] <tumaix> thanks, doing the rest of the review request
[19:42] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: as for default set those four are good to you?
[19:43] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yes....calendar/comic/notes are a little bit 
"bleh" for defaults...so I agree with those 4...
[19:43] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: for 4.5 we can have something nicer for the social 
stuff
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[19:44] <notmart> the calsendar could become interesting when will be 
integrated with akonady to display appointments
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[19:46] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: anoter thing that should be done for 4.4, the 
title strips in the newspaper containment..
[19:46] <notmart> oh, another thing before that..
[19:47] <MoRpHeUz> title strips++ and a way to show the new icon that you 
added to app handle
[19:47] <MoRpHeUz> applet handle
[19:47] <notmart> displaying a "title" is a bit a problem
[19:47] <notmart> since the applets don't have this data
[19:48] <notmart> just a generic name that is a bit meaningless
[19:49] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: maybe we should improve applet's visible names ?
[19:49] <notmart> should they always be shown or appear/disappear like the 
applet handles?
[19:49] <MoRpHeUz> hhmmm
[19:50] <MoRpHeUz> maybe appear on mouse hover ? (I don't like this idea much)
[19:50] <notmart> what idea? to always be there or mouseover?
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[19:51] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: mouseover
[19:52] <bugbot> New plasma (general) bug 208008 filed by alpha_one_x86 at first-
world.info​.
[19:52] <bugbot> Bug https://bugs.kde.org/208008​ normal, NOR, UNCONFIRMED, 
Bug in notifier with special click
[19:52] <notmart> would be perhaps a bit easier since havin elements that 
aren't the applets in the layout complicated the thing a bit
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2.4.5 или старше)").
[19:52] * notmart remember he tried and failed, having all titles stacked up 
before the applets :p
[19:53] <bugbot> New plasma (general) bug 208009 filed by eantoranz at gmail.com​
.
[19:53] <bugbot> Bug https://bugs.kde.org/208009​ wishlist, NOR, UNCONFIRMED, 
new icons on system tray: more elegant way to show/hide them
[19:53] <MoRpHeUz> hehe
[19:53] <annieC_away> pastebin is crashing plasma...
[19:53] *** annieC_away is now known as annieC.
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[19:54] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: combobox problem ? already fixed
[19:54] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: you tried to paste an image, didn't you ?
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out)).
[19:54] <annieC> i did
[19:54] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: it's already fixed in trunk
[19:54] <annieC> nice :)
[19:55] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: we have a job for you :)
[19:55] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: integrate remote widgets in widgets explorer :)
[19:55] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: job is done ;)
[19:55] <MoRpHeUz> (our job, that is keep poking she hehehe)
[19:55] <annieC> yeah, i read something about whips
[19:55] <notmart> eheh :)
[19:55] <MoRpHeUz> hehehehe
[19:56] <annieC> haha, i'll do it. but no whips please
[19:56] <annieC> hey
[19:56] <MoRpHeUz> :)
[19:56] <annieC> what do you think about
[19:56] <annieC> hiding panel controller
[19:56] * MoRpHeUz needs to get his car and have lunch...
[19:56] <annieC> when changing the panels location?
[19:57] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: anything else that we should decide today ?
[19:57] <tumaix> may I poke her too?
[19:57] <MoRpHeUz> tumaix: sure :)
[19:57] <MoRpHeUz> my pleasure :)
[19:57] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: just an opinion:
[19:57] * tumaix pokes annieC
[19:57] <notmart> the search field in the panel:
[19:57] <tumaix> wee
[19:57] <notmart> i wanted to do the following:
[19:58] <notmart> -no more a popupapplet, use always a popup
[19:58] <annieC> tumaix: don't!
[19:58] <notmart> -the sal has a search field by itself now
[19:58] <notmart> -make the search field of the panel applet exactly 
overlapping the one in the containment
[19:58] <annieC> i get angry easily
[19:58] <annieC> :P
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[19:59] <notmart> so it really seems the same thing
[19:59] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: what do you think?
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peer)).
[19:59] <annieC> hey, listen. look what's happening to panelcontroller when I 
move the panel to another edge: http://imagebin.org/64564​
[19:59] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: you mean, making it apper in the same location as 
the containment's one ?
[19:59] <annieC> notmart: MoRpHeUz: tumaix
[20:00] <tumaix> people, I'm with a small problem. I just set the name of an 
action to "Latex Colours", but the text() is returning "&Latex Colours", how 
can I get rid of that & permanently, in a i18n safe way?
[20:00] <tumaix> annieC: don't be angry, be cute. ;D
[20:00] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yes
[20:00] <notmart> (thing that i don't think i can with a popupapplet by the 
way)
[20:01] <annieC> not if people keep poking me :)
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[20:01] *** sreich2 is now known as sreich.
[20:01] <annieC> listen to me people. panelcontroller is mad
[20:01] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: seems nice...but how would you know the position 
of the search box in the containment ?
[20:02] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: eh, we'll have to expand the dataengine :)
[20:02] <annieC> aseigo: ping
[20:02] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ;) just what I thought hahahaha :)
[20:03] <notmart> so both the applet and the containment will use both the 
dataengine and the service part.. sounds a bit pervert but could work :)
[20:03] <insanity> markey is a pervert too *spanks markey*
[20:03] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yep, seems nice....we just need to be sure that 
the user *sees*  that the focus is on the input field...to not get lost about 
"magic" being done hehe ;)
[20:03] <notmart> insanity is genious :)
[20:04] <CIA-5> bettio * r1026064 plasma/trunk/kdereview/plasma/applets/ 
(CMakeLists.txt blackboard/): Moving blackboard to kdeplasma-addons.
[20:04] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: huahuahuahuahua
[20:04] <notmart> ah, yeah, i should also deuglyfy the plasma lineedit to have 
a bit of a clue on the focus :)
[20:04] <MoRpHeUz> insanity++
[20:04] <insanity> thanks :)
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[20:05] <notmart> ~order party
[20:05] * insanity slides party down the bar to notmart
[20:05] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: we can add this stuff to the wiki so we can work 
in all this stuff together...
[20:05] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yes..
[20:06] <notmart> the sal will have to be untouchable for a while, it's the 
second time i make a conflict with uncommitted aseigo stuff :)
[20:06] <MoRpHeUz> hehehe....yeah, sure :)
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[20:07] * MoRpHeUz hugs aseigo and notmart
[20:07] <tsdgeos> is camuffo around?
[20:07] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: hey, I'll be back in a few minutes..need to get 
the car and eat something hehe :)
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[20:07] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: see you! :)

-- 
Marco Martin