netbook irc meeting

Sun Sep 20 22:16:13 CEST 2009

On Sunday 20 September 2009, Marco Martin wrote:
> On Sunday 20 September 2009, Marco Martin wrote:
> > On Thursday 17 September 2009, Marco Martin wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > since i want to do the netbook shell as good as possible, i'm
> > > interested to hear opinions and directions from you guys =D
> > >
> > > i would like to have a little irc meeting about it, to discuss some of
> > > the issues there still are  in the current implementation, possible
> > > topics are: -point of the situation, what actually are the issues :)
> > > -integration with the system, like with kwin, and how to start a
> > > netbook session
> > > -default applets layout, what to put in the containments
> > > -look and feel: how should actually look from a designe pov
> > > -priorities: what is really important for 4.4, what can be 4.5
> > >
> > > more implementation details, not really metting topics:
> > > -how to loadthe default layout: hardcode/vs default config fie/vs
> > > scripting -what are the ugly spots in the code and things like that
> > >
> > > could be done? what do you think?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Marco Martin
> >
> > in the end being aaron and nuno-less there wasn't much going on, however
> > me and arthur chatted a bit about the various parts for a bit, here is
> > the unfiltered log that can at least make a recap of the topics if we can
> > make a "good one" :)
>
> little synopsys, topics were mostly what we more urgently need for 4.4:
> *Panel:
>   -default applets: now there are  current window control, activitybar,
> spacer, systray, search field for sal
>   - i would swap current window control and the search field
>   - connected to the ability to have multiple "pages" (just tought about it
> now) a button after activitybar that creates a new newspaper activity
>   - other thing not touched there but to be decided: panel autohide or not?
>   - search field for sal: since the sal has a search field by itself i
> would do:
>      -make it no longer a popupapplet so i can access the dialog geometry
>      -make the dialog be exactly superimposed to the sal internel search
> field to make it feel they are the "same thing"
>
> *Newspaper
>   -titles: on mouse over like applet handles or always there? (applet
> handles like would be waay simpler code, less clobbering with layouts)

uh, forgotten quite important topic:
we agreed that as the default stuff in the newspaper could be good news, 
weather, opendesktop  and opendesktop knowledgebase
all of them are in kdeplasma-addons: is a acceptable dependency? :/

> > [19:04] <igorto> notmart, MoRpHeUz me and Savago are talking about a
> > personal layout .. using akonadi(akonadi dataengine maybe)
> > [19:04] <Savago> tumaix, just FISL. But it was great. Meet with lots of
> > former co-workers there. :-)
> > [19:05] <notmart> igorto, MoRpHeUz: the social activity thing?
> > [19:05] <MoRpHeUz> igorto: ?
> > [19:05] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I don't think it's the same thing hehe
> > [19:05] <notmart> ah, ok
> > [19:06] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I was thinking more about OCS and Silk, but
> > yeah, for other "contact" stuff we should use akonadi for sure
> > [19:06] <igorto> notmart, no ... a layout for contacts(vcard), notes,
> > todos, with google synchronization and these things
> > [19:06] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: that's looks like just a default applets
> > layout, really
> > [19:06] <Savago> yep. The good thing is that all this stuff is already
> > done by akonadi (protocols, data formats, etc).
> > [19:06] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I really don't care about the layout of the
> > stuff....can be newspaper, default applets layout, etc...
> > [19:07] <notmart> for silk, i wanted to do a mini-selkie plasmoid that
> > opens the full selkie..
> > [19:07] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I'm more interested about the *contents* of
> > the thing hehe
> > [19:07] <Savago> MoRpHeUz, what were you planning for the *contents*?
> > [19:07] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: so the question becomes: do we already have
> > all the plasmoids we need?
> > [19:08] <notmart> for default layout i was meaning, what sets of plasmoid
> > should be loaded by default
> > [19:08] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: that's one problem, I think that right now
> > the number of "default plamoids" that we should have are growing, and
> > that's why a separate activity would be needed
> > [19:09] <MoRpHeUz> (imagine a scenario with 15 contact plasmoids)
> > [19:09] <MoRpHeUz> Savago: something like what you said above, but not
> > centered on akonadi stuff
> > [19:09] <MoRpHeUz> something more like what moblin provides
> > [19:09] <MoRpHeUz> (and open desktop widget)
> > [19:09] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yes, but also keep in mind that having an
> > awful load of stuff loaded by default makes the memory footprint pretty
> > big [19:10] <notmart> and if it is the user that adds stuff is ok, but
> > there shouldn't be the impression that as default is really bloated
> > [19:10] <Savago> MoRpHeUz, I see.
> > [19:10] * pinheiro nost sure i like a big page of plasmoids or several
> > pages [19:11] <notmart> we should also have a way to add/remove pages
> > that possibly isn't the zui there..
> > [19:11] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yep, I'm talking about the user adding stuff
> > (after all, it's the users contacts)
> > [19:12] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: so, as pinheiro pointed out it's a matter of
> > having a big page of plasmoids or several pages...
> > [19:12] <-- fawek has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset
> > by peer)).
> > [19:12] <pinheiro> notmart: maybe scrolingn trough pages is more
> > interesting than the zui here
> > [19:12] <pinheiro> more phinger friendly
> > [19:13] <notmart> what i'm more concerned for this meeting however, is to
> > really have clear in mind what is a must have for 4.4 and must be rushed
> > in quickly :D
> > [19:13] <pinheiro> and as space manegemenat is simpler for the user
> > [19:13] <notmart> pinheiro: a single long page that scrolls?
> > [19:14] <pinheiro> notmart: no several pages
> > [19:14] <pinheiro> that you can push
> > [19:14] <pinheiro> slide
> > [19:14] <pinheiro> like desktops
> > [19:14] <-- nhnFreespirit has left this server (Read error: 110
> > (Connection timed out)).
> > [19:15] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: well, for 4.4 I think that having what we
> > currently have but really stable and a way to easily switch between
> > netbook and desktop shells....
> > [19:15] <MoRpHeUz> it would be ok for the "first release"
> > [19:15] * pinheiro agfreas
> > [19:16] <pinheiro> agreas
> > [19:16] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: and then the social stuff for later, to
> > really improve the user experience...
> > [19:16] <notmart> the sliding animation could be a problem since we
> > aren't sure the pages on the scene are in the right order..
> > [19:16] * pinheiro off be back much later good luck guys
> > [19:16] <notmart> but i can think about several hacks to do that
> > [19:17] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: so let's start about what plasmoids we want
> > in the panel in what order and in the newspaper by default?
> > [19:17] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ah, it would be nice to have remote widgets
> > for 4.4 too....
> > [19:17] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ok :)
> > [19:17] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: i actually never looked into it but don't
> > they work already?
> > [19:18] --> nhnFreespirit has joined this channel
> > (n=quassel at 0x5552cc2f.adsl.cybercity.dk).
> > [19:18] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ow yeah, I was reffering to widgets explorer
> > supporting them :) sorry hehe :P
> > [19:19] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: ok, for that we just need more whip for
> > annieC_away so :p
> > [19:22] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yeeepp hehehe :P
> > [19:23] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: so now in the panel:
> > [19:24] <notmart> there is the current window control, an activity bar, a
> > spacer, a systray and the search thinghie
> > [19:24] <MoRpHeUz> ouch /me needs to type faster hehe
> > [19:24] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: I think that only the battery is
> > missing...what do you think ?
> > [19:25] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: in the systray?
> > [19:25] <MoRpHeUz> can be...
> > [19:25] --> uwolfer has joined this channel (n=uwolfer at 195.190.176.114).
> > [19:25] <notmart> now the systray has a qaction that loads the default
> > plasmoids in it that are the device notifier and the battery (if there is
> > a battery)
> > [19:26] <MoRpHeUz> ow yes! device notifier are pretty important for
> > netbooks! ;)
> > [19:26] <notmart> in plasma that the default layout is loaded by a c++
> > function that action is already called
> > [19:26] <notmart> in the netbook that we have a config file is harder
> > [19:27] --> mt19 has joined this channel (n=mark at port-183-
> > pool-91-187-5.infonet.by).
> > [19:27] <tumaix> anybody can review some modifications that I did to
> > kcolourpicker plasma addon?
> > [19:27] <notmart> i think i'll have to iterate all the panel applets
> > after a config restore and call that action
> > [19:27] <notmart> tumaix: are they on reviewboard?
> > [19:28] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: can't we use the new JS stuff from aseigo to
> > correctly setup this ?
> > [19:28] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: i was thinking about that the current window
> > control could be in the last position?
> > [19:28] <tumaix> notmart: no, I just created the diff.
> > [19:28] <tumaix> how can I send to reviewboard?
> > [19:29] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yeah, i was thinking about that, i still
> > didn't take a look at the code, so i'm not sure how to d o it but i
> > should try [19:29] <Savago> tumaix, http://reviewboard.kde.org
> > [19:29] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: if the current window control will be in the
> > last position, where do we put the searchbox ?
> > [19:29] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: i think it should be used for loading the
> > default icons in the sal main icon grid too intead of the horrid
> > hardcoded thing there is now
> > [19:30] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: first?
> > [19:30] <notmart> tumaix: just upload the patch to reviewboard.kde.org
> > [19:30] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: could be...but I think that both should be at
> > "corners" hehe :)
> > [19:30] <notmart> yes, first position in the left
> > [19:30] <notmart> just to have the close window button where it always
> > was [19:31] <-- jpwhiting has left this server (Read error: 104
> > (Connection reset by peer)).
> > [19:31] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ;)
> > [19:31] <MoRpHeUz> agreed
> > [19:31] <notmart> only thing it concerns me is that clicking on the
> > current window thing it calls present windows, but also putting the mouse
> > in the top left corner
> > [19:32] <notmart> so that is what made me decide for top left in the
> > first place..
> > [19:33] --> jpwhiting has joined this channel
> > (n=jeremy at kde/developer/whiting).
> > [19:33] <tumaix> notmart: Unable to parse diff revision header '(revisão
> > 1026053)
> > [19:33] <tumaix> ?!
> > [19:34] <notmart> tumaix: uuh, crud yeah
> > [19:34] <notmart> reviewboard is so stupid that requires diffs headers in
> > english :/
> > [19:34] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ok, and what about newspaper layout
> > (defaults) ? [19:34] <tumaix> ok, I will change the diff to english
> > [19:35] --> metlos has joined this channel
> > (n=metlos at ip4-83-240-61-56.cust.nbox.cz).
> > [19:35] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: ugly thing is that i think pretty much all we
> > need here are in kdeplasma-addons
> > [19:35] <notmart> rss, weather, opendesktop and opendesktop knowledge
> > base as default set?
> > [19:36] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ouch =/ yep...almost all of them are in
> > kdeplasma- addons.. =/
> > [19:38] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: they should be added checking first the
> > plugin is installed, to avoid a page full of failedtolauch applets...
> > [19:38] <notmart> and i don't see non c++ ways to do that
> > [19:39] <notmart> (making queries to servicetrader first)
> > [19:39] <tumaix> notmart: 'base diff path'. what should I put here? I'v
> > tried kdeplasma-addons/applets/kolourpicker/
> > [19:39] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yep, probably we'll endup with c++ or js to
> > do this (/me really needs to take a look at that api)
> > [19:40] <notmart> tumaix: if you ran svn diff in kdeplasma-
> > addons/applets/kolourpicker/ the base path is /trunk/KDE/kdeplasma-
> > addons/applets/kolourpicker
> > [19:41] <-- zzAMzz has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
> > [19:41] <-- giucam has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
> > [19:41] <tumaix> thanks, doing the rest of the review request
> > [19:42] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: as for default set those four are good to
> > you? [19:43] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yes....calendar/comic/notes are a little
> > bit "bleh" for defaults...so I agree with those 4...
> > [19:43] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: for 4.5 we can have something nicer for the
> > social stuff
> > [19:44] <-- sayakb has left this server (Remote closed the connection).
> > [19:44] <notmart> the calsendar could become interesting when will be
> > integrated with akonady to display appointments
> > [19:44] --> sayakb has joined this channel
> > (n=sayakb at ubuntu/member/kde.sayakb).
> > [19:46] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: anoter thing that should be done for 4.4, the
> > title strips in the newspaper containment..
> > [19:46] <notmart> oh, another thing before that..
> > [19:47] <MoRpHeUz> title strips++ and a way to show the new icon that you
> > added to app handle
> > [19:47] <MoRpHeUz> applet handle
> > [19:47] <notmart> displaying a "title" is a bit a problem
> > [19:47] <notmart> since the applets don't have this data
> > [19:48] <notmart> just a generic name that is a bit meaningless
> > [19:49] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: maybe we should improve applet's visible
> > names ? [19:49] <notmart> should they always be shown or appear/disappear
> > like the applet handles?
> > [19:49] <MoRpHeUz> hhmmm
> > [19:50] <MoRpHeUz> maybe appear on mouse hover ? (I don't like this idea
> > much) [19:50] <notmart> what idea? to always be there or mouseover?
> > [19:51] --> mat69 has joined this channel (n=kde-deve at 93.83.106.50).
> > [19:51] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: mouseover
> > [19:52] <bugbot> New plasma (general) bug 208008 filed by
> > alpha_one_x86 at first- world.info.
> > [19:52] <bugbot> Bug https://bugs.kde.org/208008 normal, NOR,
> > UNCONFIRMED, Bug in notifier with special click
> > [19:52] <notmart> would be perhaps a bit easier since havin elements that
> > aren't the applets in the layout complicated the thing a bit
> > [19:52] <-- generatorglukoff has left this server ("Ухожу я от вас (xchat
> > 2.4.5 или старше)").
> > [19:52] * notmart remember he tried and failed, having all titles stacked
> > up before the applets :p
> > [19:53] <bugbot> New plasma (general) bug 208009 filed by
> > eantoranz at gmail.com .
> > [19:53] <bugbot> Bug https://bugs.kde.org/208009 wishlist, NOR,
> > UNCONFIRMED, new icons on system tray: more elegant way to show/hide them
> > [19:53] <MoRpHeUz> hehe
> > [19:53] <annieC_away> pastebin is crashing plasma...
> > [19:53] *** annieC_away is now known as annieC.
> > [19:53] --> randomguy3 has joined this channel
> > (n=alex at 88-106-248-221.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com).
> > [19:54] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: combobox problem ? already fixed
> > [19:54] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: you tried to paste an image, didn't you ?
> > [19:54] <-- mt19 has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed
> > out)).
> > [19:54] <annieC> i did
> > [19:54] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: it's already fixed in trunk
> > [19:54] <annieC> nice :)
> > [19:55] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: we have a job for you :)
> > [19:55] <MoRpHeUz> annieC: integrate remote widgets in widgets explorer
> > :) [19:55] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: job is done ;)
> > [19:55] <MoRpHeUz> (our job, that is keep poking she hehehe)
> > [19:55] <annieC> yeah, i read something about whips
> > [19:55] <notmart> eheh :)
> > [19:55] <MoRpHeUz> hehehehe
> > [19:56] <annieC> haha, i'll do it. but no whips please
> > [19:56] <annieC> hey
> > [19:56] <MoRpHeUz> :)
> > [19:56] <annieC> what do you think about
> > [19:56] <annieC> hiding panel controller
> > [19:56] * MoRpHeUz needs to get his car and have lunch...
> > [19:56] <annieC> when changing the panels location?
> > [19:57] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: anything else that we should decide today ?
> > [19:57] <tumaix> may I poke her too?
> > [19:57] <MoRpHeUz> tumaix: sure :)
> > [19:57] <MoRpHeUz> my pleasure :)
> > [19:57] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: just an opinion:
> > [19:57] * tumaix pokes annieC
> > [19:57] <notmart> the search field in the panel:
> > [19:57] <tumaix> wee
> > [19:57] <notmart> i wanted to do the following:
> > [19:58] <notmart> -no more a popupapplet, use always a popup
> > [19:58] <annieC> tumaix: don't!
> > [19:58] <notmart> -the sal has a search field by itself now
> > [19:58] <notmart> -make the search field of the panel applet exactly
> > overlapping the one in the containment
> > [19:58] <annieC> i get angry easily
> > [19:58] <annieC> :P
> > [19:59] --> fawek has joined this channel
> > (n=faw at chello089079021184.chello.pl).
> > [19:59] <notmart> so it really seems the same thing
> > [19:59] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: what do you think?
> > [19:59] <-- moofang has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection
> > reset by peer)).
> > [19:59] <annieC> hey, listen. look what's happening to panelcontroller
> > when I move the panel to another edge: http://imagebin.org/64564
> > [19:59] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: you mean, making it apper in the same
> > location as the containment's one ?
> > [19:59] <annieC> notmart: MoRpHeUz: tumaix
> > [20:00] <tumaix> people, I'm with a small problem. I just set the name of
> > an action to "Latex Colours", but the text() is returning "&Latex
> > Colours", how can I get rid of that & permanently, in a i18n safe way?
> > [20:00] <tumaix> annieC: don't be angry, be cute. ;D
> > [20:00] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yes
> > [20:00] <notmart> (thing that i don't think i can with a popupapplet by
> > the way)
> > [20:01] <annieC> not if people keep poking me :)
> > [20:01] *** sreich is now known as sreich2.
> > [20:01] *** sreich2 is now known as sreich.
> > [20:01] <annieC> listen to me people. panelcontroller is mad
> > [20:01] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: seems nice...but how would you know the
> > position of the search box in the containment ?
> > [20:02] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: eh, we'll have to expand the dataengine :)
> > [20:02] <annieC> aseigo: ping
> > [20:02] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: ;) just what I thought hahahaha :)
> > [20:03] <notmart> so both the applet and the containment will use both
> > the dataengine and the service part.. sounds a bit pervert but could work
> > :) [20:03] <insanity> markey is a pervert too *spanks markey*
> > [20:03] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: yep, seems nice....we just need to be sure
> > that the user *sees*  that the focus is on the input field...to not get
> > lost about "magic" being done hehe ;)
> > [20:03] <notmart> insanity is genious :)
> > [20:04] <CIA-5> bettio * r1026064 plasma/trunk/kdereview/plasma/applets/
> > (CMakeLists.txt blackboard/): Moving blackboard to kdeplasma-addons.
> > [20:04] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: huahuahuahuahua
> > [20:04] <notmart> ah, yeah, i should also deuglyfy the plasma lineedit to
> > have a bit of a clue on the focus :)
> > [20:04] <MoRpHeUz> insanity++
> > [20:04] <insanity> thanks :)
> > [20:05] --> mt19 has joined this channel (n=mark at port-231-
> > pool-91-187-11.infonet.by).
> > [20:05] <notmart> ~order party
> > [20:05] * insanity slides party down the bar to notmart
> > [20:05] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: we can add this stuff to the wiki so we can
> > work in all this stuff together...
> > [20:05] <notmart> MoRpHeUz: yes..
> > [20:06] <notmart> the sal will have to be untouchable for a while, it's
> > the second time i make a conflict with uncommitted aseigo stuff :)
> > [20:06] <MoRpHeUz> hehehe....yeah, sure :)
> > [20:07] --> tsdgeos has joined this channel (n=tsdgeos at kde/aacid).
> > [20:07] * MoRpHeUz hugs aseigo and notmart
> > [20:07] <tsdgeos> is camuffo around?
> > [20:07] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: hey, I'll be back in a few minutes..need to
> > get the car and eat something hehe :)
> > [20:07] --> leeo has joined this channel
> > (n=lee at 97-116-99-149.mpls.qwest.net). [20:07] <MoRpHeUz> notmart: see
> > you!
> >
> > :)

-- 
Marco Martin