KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/containments/folderview

[pinheiro]

A Thursday 29 May 2008 08:51:27, Aaron J. Seigo escreveu:
> On Tuesday 27 May 2008, pinheiro wrote:
> > Sory this was the joob I tried to have and wen doing it been told to keep
> > my opinions to myself, several times.
>
> other than centered panels, i really don't remember any conversation where
> your opinion was not accepted.
>
> > I promised marco to provide some new ideas into de the descktop darg and
> > drop files, visual iteractions, and diferentied folder types to enhance
> > user experience.
>
> great..
>
> > > because that's really what's needed: someone to provide some visual
> > > design that can step above the "hm... this one particular widget over
> > > here needs this particular tweak" mentality and start thinking of the
> > > whole.
> >
> > Thats what I do, ask the developers I worked with in plasma.
>
> i have the feeling that those work on art, including yourself, believe
> that's what is going on, but it really isn't. if we look at all the
> elements in the current default theme it becomes very evident.
>
> we can discuss what the intentions are, what we were all thinking when we
> were doing what we were doing ..... but the results speak for themselves.
>
> at the moment we do not have a coherent set of visual elements, and we do
> not have enough communication.
>
> > That dosent meen every developer is willing to listen, and wen they like
> > the way theyr plasmoid looks requesting them to make alterations is not a
> > fun joob.
>
> we're really not talking about the look of individual widgets. it will be
> great when we get to the point that we can start discussing that level of
> detail.
>
> right now we have much more fundamental issues with generic visual
> components.
>
> > > mostly i'm just very disapointed that this particular change made it
> > > into the code base. if it isn't out before i leave for my flight
> > > tomorrow, i will be removing it directly myself.
> >
> > In the famus words " artistic opinons are like ass holles, every one gots
> > his hown and they all stink" including mine and yours aron!
>
> this isn't about artistic opinions. in this case it's about usability and
> interaction. this will all get a lot easier for everyone if we can all try
> to understand that when we discuss "art" we are also discussing "usability"
> and when we discuss "coding" we are also discussing "art" because one
> affects the other..
>
> > If you don't trust me its fine some years of kde as tought me that prety
>
> this is not about trust, it's about being able to work together (everyone)
> in such a way that we get useful results.
>
> we can all be trustworthy, hard working people with great ideas but if we
> can't *coordinate* and respect that we may have ideas that are great for
> one thing (e.g. art, code) but are not good at all for another (e.g.
> usability, art) then we will end up with a bunch of individually good
> things that just don't work nicely together.
>
> > I'm not an art despot, I just want to help!
>
> if you can share what help you need, there's the possibility it can be made
> available.
>
> > I work a bit in this issues and the place were i allways have more
> > problems implementing designs is in opensource, And what I have
> > understood over the
>
> where it hasn't overlapped with impossibilities (like the system tray's
> brokenness) or usability (like centering a panel by default), you have been
> given complet artistic control.
>
> this is really my point though: it isn't about you not having control, it's
> about the final result not being as consistent or compelling as it could
> be.
>
> this is not the "fault" of the artists, it's a general issue of everyone
> here really not working together with the specific goal of a complete whole
> at the end.
>
> as i stated earlier, ther is a lack of art direction being applied. lots of
> artistic creation, but it needs to be directed and coordinated, and not
> just for the artists.
>
> > open to our opinions. The leavels of distrust over artst opinions is
> > huge. here, a bit like usability opinons. Think its part of a geek
> > mentality.
>
> to turn it around, i find that the artists tend to have very little respect
> for usability and will prefer visual over usable.
>
> that's not unexpected or unusual or even disturbing. it just is.
>
> so as you see, it really does go both ways.
>
> to improve things, let's try to:
>
> * communicate more often and more clearly when it comes to artwork
>
> * describe a visual goal somewhere on the wiki so that we both have
> something to strive for as well as to hold the developers writing code to
>
> * do routine checks through the artwork just like we do with the code that
> makes up plasma
>
> yes, this is all art direction rather than art creation. i'd prefer it if
> you were to step up and provide this, mostly because you'll do a better job
> of it and have the right drive for it. but if it doesn't happen, i will end
> up taking it on because it can not simply be allowed to continue on as it
> is if we want something that actually looks stunning at the end.

Aron I dont mind doing that, I wold love working with celleste on this. and a 
few more people 2. making some sort of art/usability group.
But I was never in charge of this yes it might be a comunication problem very 
few plasma developers quered to ask my opinion on any given plasmoid or the 
way the interaction is made, so yeah its normal that its not coerent at all, 
not usability wise or artisticly wise most single visual parts of plasma are 
mostly a product of a one man show one men at the time.
  

-- 

core oxygen icon designer