KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/containments/folderview

[Aaron J. Seigo]

On Tuesday 27 May 2008, pinheiro wrote:
> Sory this was the joob I tried to have and wen doing it been told to keep
> my opinions to myself, several times.

other than centered panels, i really don't remember any conversation where 
your opinion was not accepted.
 
> I promised marco to provide some new ideas into de the descktop darg and
> drop files, visual iteractions, and diferentied folder types to enhance
> user experience.

great..

> > because that's really what's needed: someone to provide some visual
> > design that can step above the "hm... this one particular widget over
> > here needs this particular tweak" mentality and start thinking of the
> > whole.
>
> Thats what I do, ask the developers I worked with in plasma.

i have the feeling that those work on art, including yourself, believe that's 
what is going on, but it really isn't. if we look at all the elements in the 
current default theme it becomes very evident.

we can discuss what the intentions are, what we were all thinking when we were 
doing what we were doing ..... but the results speak for themselves.

at the moment we do not have a coherent set of visual elements, and we do not 
have enough communication.

> That dosent meen every developer is willing to listen, and wen they like
> the way theyr plasmoid looks requesting them to make alterations is not a
> fun joob.

we're really not talking about the look of individual widgets. it will be 
great when we get to the point that we can start discussing that level of 
detail.

right now we have much more fundamental issues with generic visual components.

> > mostly i'm just very disapointed that this particular change made it into
> > the code base. if it isn't out before i leave for my flight tomorrow, i
> > will be removing it directly myself.
>
> In the famus words " artistic opinons are like ass holles, every one gots
> his hown and they all stink" including mine and yours aron!

this isn't about artistic opinions. in this case it's about usability and 
interaction. this will all get a lot easier for everyone if we can all try to 
understand that when we discuss "art" we are also discussing "usability" and 
when we discuss "coding" we are also discussing "art" because one affects the 
other..

> If you don't trust me its fine some years of kde as tought me that prety

this is not about trust, it's about being able to work together (everyone) in 
such a way that we get useful results.

we can all be trustworthy, hard working people with great ideas but if we 
can't *coordinate* and respect that we may have ideas that are great for one 
thing (e.g. art, code) but are not good at all for another (e.g. usability, 
art) then we will end up with a bunch of individually good things that just 
don't work nicely together.

> I'm not an art despot, I just want to help!

if you can share what help you need, there's the possibility it can be made 
available.

> I work a bit in this issues and the place were i allways have more problems
> implementing designs is in opensource, And what I have understood over the

where it hasn't overlapped with impossibilities (like the system tray's 
brokenness) or usability (like centering a panel by default), you have been 
given complet artistic control.

this is really my point though: it isn't about you not having control, it's 
about the final result not being as consistent or compelling as it could be.

this is not the "fault" of the artists, it's a general issue of everyone here 
really not working together with the specific goal of a complete whole at the 
end.

as i stated earlier, ther is a lack of art direction being applied. lots of 
artistic creation, but it needs to be directed and coordinated, and not just 
for the artists.

> open to our opinions. The leavels of distrust over artst opinions is huge.
> here, a bit like usability opinons. Think its part of a geek mentality.

to turn it around, i find that the artists tend to have very little respect 
for usability and will prefer visual over usable.

that's not unexpected or unusual or even disturbing. it just is.

so as you see, it really does go both ways.

to improve things, let's try to:

* communicate more often and more clearly when it comes to artwork

* describe a visual goal somewhere on the wiki so that we both have something 
to strive for as well as to hold the developers writing code to

* do routine checks through the artwork just like we do with the code that 
makes up plasma

yes, this is all art direction rather than art creation. i'd prefer it if you 
were to step up and provide this, mostly because you'll do a better job of it 
and have the right drive for it. but if it doesn't happen, i will end up 
taking it on because it can not simply be allowed to continue on as it is if 
we want something that actually looks stunning at the end.

-- 
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

KDE core developer sponsored by Trolltech
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