[Owncloud] Fwd: Flattr for the release?

Sat Oct 8 17:38:19 UTC 2011

I agree with a few statements.

But I don't just want the discussion to be closed like this. I think
owncloud is a community project and therefore the community should discuss
it and not just say: "there are problems, so let's not do it."

I think the reason why owncloud is a great project is because it is a
free/open source/community driven project.
So let's discuss this matter in more detail as a community to prevent as
Frank wrote: "mistrust inside the community"

I already wrote some stuff, but to really get a great discussion here I
rewrite a few points:
*My opinion is written in italic.*

   - Do we want to accept donations?

*Totally yes, I think it is essential to start as early as possible. And
give users the ability to contribute.*

   - Do we want to use flattr for this?

*button in the header and one button each after the specific docs | one
button in the header of the demo*
*Nothing about pleading, just a button. Easy, simple and hopefully
effective.
*

   - Do we want to be agile and so use a dedicated flattr account?

*I would say yes. A dedicated account to tell the user: "you donate to
owncloud"
The solutions for the legal issues will be provided at the end of the mail.*

   - Do we want to be recognized as the open source ownCloud project or as
   KDE e.V.?

*I think i's great to be a KDE project, but why not having a few things
dedicated or at least ready to be dedicated?
Using a dedicated flattr account would be a start.
I'm not saying screw KDE, I just want ownCloud to be just ownCloud not
matter who is the organization behind it.
So have solutions only used with the ownCloud label. We are not using
gitorious like /kde/owncloud.git we use owncloud/owncloud.git, so let's go
with this labeling and use a dedicated account for flattr.
I don't like the idea of: "So what we should do here is to motivate our
users to donate to KDE e.V. (perhaps with a flattr button or something else)
and than we can expect from the KDE e.V. to support our developer meetings
and other expenses we have." Frank
The user has the right to be sure he is donating to ownCloud and has the
right to see it.*

   - Do we really need everything do be put on hold, just because we need "a
   bit more planning"?

*Isn't the great thing about being open to move quickly? Move like the
community wants it to?
I can understand the legal issues, that's why I'll try to give a few
solutions later on.*

Solutions for dedicated flattr donations:

   1. ownCloud flattr account managed by a community member. All legal
   issues are handled by this member. It isn't legally related to ownCloud. The
   Transaction could be made via a donation to KDE later on. Problem: It isn't
   completely community driven, but there wouldn't be any legal issues and it
   would be easy to change it later on to a community driven flattr account.
   2. We wait and miss opportunities.
   3. We let handle KDE the ownCloud account and let the community vote
   about what to do with the money. (doesn't seem to be a solution, I
   interpreted from Franks answers)

Any other solutions?

To sum it up: "We need funding for developer sprints, so why not take
donations?" or actually make it possible to take donations.

Using the coming release will be a great opportunity to start getting
donations, don't let us miss that.

Let's discuss this issue fast, so we can prove to be agile enough to not
miss opportunities.

Cheers
Michael

PS: If noone else is found, I could manage the flattr stuff. I'm not
unfamiliar with flattr.

On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Frank Karlitschek <karlitschek at kde.org>wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> I really like your enthusiasm. But it´s not really a matter of the layout.
> Please see my previous post for the reasons.
>
> I´m sorry but it´s not an argument that we have the problems perhaps only
> later and not today so we can start today and don´t have to thing about the
> consequences now.
> I´m the treasurer of the KDE e.V. and I´m also involved in legal and
> financial matters of several other organizations.  I can tell you that this
> kind of stuff needs a bit more planing than just putting a button on the
> site and think about other legal and financial stuff later.
>
> I´m really sorry but we have to postpone this for now.
>
>
> Cheers
> Frank
>
>
>
>
> On 08.10.2011, at 18:04, Michael Grosser wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Michael Grosser <owncloud at seetheprogress.net>
> > Date: Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 2:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Owncloud] Flattr for the release?
> > To: Sam Tuke <mail at samtuke.com>
> >
> >
> > Jeff Gibbs I don't like to pledge for money or say donate or die (not
> able to download), it is just a button, which fives the oportunity to donate
> nothing more or less.
> > On the demo it should look like this: see attachment:Screenshot-9.png
> >
> > Sam Duke yeah I just want to use the realeas. We can talk about what to
> do with the money in detail later.
> >
> > Just to show how it could be looking on the main page:
> > header button: see attachment:Screenshot-10.png
> > and 2 buttons after the docs (not on the home page): see
> attachment:Screenshot-11.png + Screenshot-12.png
> >
> > Hope that gives you an idea how it could look.
> >
> > Cheers Michael
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 2:11 AM, Sam Tuke <mail at samtuke.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 2011-10-08 at 01:14 +0200, Michael Grosser wrote:
> > > My idea is to have the flattr buttons ready for the release and think
> > > about what to do with the money later.
> >
> > Excellent idea.
> >
> > > one in the demo.owncloud.org header
> > > one in the header of owncloud.org
> > > and one for each specific page
> > > and later perhaps one in the owncloud installation code (under a
> > > contribute tab under  settings or so)
> >
> > Most importantly, one prominently in the release announcement, so that
> > all that traffic on release day will go by the opportunity to donate.
> >
> > The money would be useful for future sprints, among other things.
> >
> > Sam.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> <Screenshot-8.png><Screenshot-9.png><Screenshot-10.png><Screenshot-11.png>_______________________________________________
> > Owncloud mailing list
> > Owncloud at kde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
> Frank Karlitschek
> karlitschek at kde.org
>
>
>
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