[Nepomuk] Re: nepomuk & gnome & firefox
Adrien Bustany
madcat at mymadcat.com
Sat Nov 20 20:11:20 CET 2010
Uuuh sorry for the useless post, I got lost in this discussion broken
across several threads...
Le Sat, 20 Nov 2010 21:09:13 +0200,
Adrien Bustany <madcat at mymadcat.com> a écrit :
> Hi all,
>
> on GNOME the standard semantic engine is called Tracker
> (tracker-project.org). It also uses the Nepomuk ontologies, so it
> should be easy to make things work the same in GNOME and KDE. Having a
> common interface surely sounds like a good idea. The question is now
> if we want a high level interface (ie. "add a tag") or a low level one
> ("run sparql query")...
>
> Cheers
>
> Adrien
>
> Le Sat, 20 Nov 2010 02:06:51 +0000 (GMT),
> Bruce Adams <tortoise_74 at yahoo.co.uk> a écrit :
>
> >
> > Hi,
> > If I may ask what is the other project? As it will obvious have
> > bearings on where
> > you want to focus your efforts.
> >
> > Brainstorming sounds like a good plan. Perhaps starting with a wide
> > scope before narrowing down to what is in and out of scope
> > and ultimately keeping it simple and acheivable.
> >
> > I'm new so apologies that this probably isn't.
> >
> > I'd like to start with resource discovery.
> > Given a URI we need to know.
> > what services provide meta data for it
> > what kind of meta data each service provides (reference to an
> > ontology?)
> >
> > Given a mounted disk semantic information could be provided by one
> > or more of at least the following:
> > a (e.g. nepomuk) server using a user specific database
> > a local server using a shared database
> > a remove server using a shared database
> > a filesystem that permits embedded semantic information.
> >
> > Ideally I'd like to be able to do the same for a web-page which is
> > why I said URI
> > rather than file. Including web-pages would most likely imply using
> > W3 standard methods for passing semantic information around.
> >
> > I'm not clear if or how nepomuk handles security issues relating to
> > users sharing
> > a database and controlling access and visibility of it.
> >
> > For each resource we need to know what priviledges we have.
> > Most importantly is it read only.
> >
> > I'm primarily interested in tagging folksonomies.
> > I'm sufficiently new that I don't know how (in)compatible the
> > ontologies used by nepomuk are with those used elsewhere (OSCAF and
> > Gnome).
> >
> > The paper http://tagont.googlecode.com/files/TagOntPaper.pdf
> > suggests a common ontology.
> > It includes the following suggested queries which look a lot like
> > some of my tagging use cases.
> >
> > • get all taggers
> > • get all tags used by a tagger X
> > • get all resources which have been tagged more
> > than once
> > • get all tags for a resource A
> > • get tags from users X,Y,Z for resource A
> >
> >
> > Myself I would very much like an API that just provides this without
> > having to writes SPARQL
> > queries as that lowers the entry requirements for using it.
> >
> > Some more vague ramblings in the direction of a (C++) API before I
> > head off to sleep.
> > I had something like this in mind for a libtagger.so which it what
> > started me searching for information
> > and led me to nepomuk.
> >
> > Entity -> File or URL
> > Service - description of a meta data provider
> > Tag - includes a simple string name
> >
> > std::set<Service> Entity::listServiceProviders()
> >
> > std::set< Tag> Entity::listTags()
> > std::set< Tag> Entity::listTags(<semantic info provider or list
> > there>) std::set< Tag> Entity::listTags(<some kind of filter>)
> >
> > <some kind of status, or just exceptions when it goes wrong>
> > Entity::addTag(tag)
> >
> > methods to convert a tag to and from a string
> > simply Tag::Tag(std::string) -
> > std::string Tag::toString()
> >
> > perhaps this is only sensible in the context of a given service
> > provider?
> >
> > Service::listDefinedTags();
> >
> > Entity::addTag(service, tag, bool createTag)
> >
> > I have to say some of this bears a resemblance to the existing
> > nepomuk API but simplified with not an ontology in sight (though its
> > there under the hood).
> >
> > Meta-data aware file ops.
> >
> > CopyFile - copy file & meta-data
> > MoveFile - move file & meta-data
> >
> > The following would apply to URLs as well:
> >
> > CopyMetaData( file1, file2) - overwrite the meta data for file2
> > with that for file1
> > CopyMetaData( file, provider1, provider2) - copy the meta data one
> > provide has for a file to another provider
> > ExportMetaData(file); - to file or a (opaque?) meta data object
> > ImportMetaData(file);
> >
> > These would need to be clever enough to decide what to do based on
> > the resource providers for the start and end points.
> >
> > I was thinking about cobbling this kind of API together for my next
> > project.
> >
> > I also wonder about having a backup file-system based metadata
> > database along the lines of
> >
> > <dir>
> > <file to tag>
> > ,metadata/
> > tags/
> > <file to tag> <- contains tags as RDF, XML or a list
> > of strings one per line.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Bruce.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Sebastian Trüg <trueg at kde.org>
> > > To: Bruce Adams <tortoise_74 at yahoo.co.uk>
> > > Cc: nepomuk at kde.org
> > > Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 2:18:30 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nepomuk] Re: nepomuk & gnome & firefox
> > >
> > > Actually I have planned to start on that API mid of next week
> > > since I need it for another project. Maybe a good idea to start
> > > would be to brainstorm on the necessary method the API would
> > > require, ie. come up with a bunch of use cases.
> > >
> > > We could put that on techbase.kde.org...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Sebastian
> > >
> > > On 11/17/2010 02:24 PM, Bruce Adams wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That's pretty much exactly what I'm looking for.
> > > > So I'm happy to collaborate on any efforts to get something
> > > > like that
> > going.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Bruce.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > >> From: Sebastian Trüg <trueg at kde.org>
> > > >> To: nepomuk at kde.org
> > > >> Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 1:04:19 PM
> > > >> Subject: [Nepomuk] Re: nepomuk & gnome & firefox
> > > >>
> > > >> This is what I mean: a DBUs API that provides what the
> > > >> Nepomuk-KDE API provides at the moment.
> > > >>
> > > >> Cheers,
> > > >> Sebastian
> > > >>
> > > >> On 11/17/2010 09:58 AM, Bruce Adams wrote:
> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> From: Richard Dale <richard.j.dale at gmail.com>
> > > >>>> To: nepomuk at kde.org
> > > >>>> Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 5:40:17 PM
> > > >>>> Subject: [Nepomuk] Re: nepomuk & gnome & firefox
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Sebastian Trüg
> > > >>>> <trueg at kde.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>>> The solution is simply what I said: we support the tracker
> > > >>>>> API and that's it. The other way around is not possible
> > > >>>>> anyway.
> > > >>>> OK, how would you like to support the tracker API? I'm
> > > >>>> still not
> > clear
> > > >>>> on what you are saying.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> One way would be to write a Tracker backend for Soprano 2.x
> > > >>>> which would support a subset of the Virtuoso backend's
> > > >>>> functionality.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Another way would be to write a QSparql based backend for
> > > >>>> Soprano 2.x which would interface with Tracker, and also
> > > >>>> support SPARQL endpoints and Virtuoso as a side effect,
> > > >>>> although you would be perfectly
> > welcome
> > > >>>> not to use that extra functionality as the drivers are only
> > > >>>> plugins. I happen to be an expert on the Tracker apis (both
> > > >>>> the DBus one and the newer 'direct api'), and the Tracker
> > > >>>> team are cooperating to improve their api WRT its use in
> > > >>>> QSparql. I am also an active KDE developer who has
> > > >>>> developed language bindings for Soprano and Nepomuk, and I
> > > >>>> am quite happy to work on KDE things in my spare time. So
> > > >>>> if anyone can do this particular task I feel I should be
> > > >>>> about the person person to try.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I don't know what your plans for Soprano 3.x are as I
> > > >>>> haven't studied the code yet.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> -- Richard
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> From my angle as a noob a lot of this is missing the point.
> > > >>> I want to read and write tag clouds in a platform
> > > >>> independent way. A rich ontology is all very well (and
> > > >>> vitally important for more advanced
> > >
> > > >> uses).
> > > >>> But at the start of the day I want to be able to do
> > > >>> something like:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Nepomuk::File file( "some/path");
> > > >>> file.addTag("foo");
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Just like in the examples here:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> http://api.kde.org/4.x-api/kdelibs-apidocs/nepomuk/html/examples.html
> > > >>>
> > > >>> and see the tag "foo" appear in the "quickview" in dolphin
> > > >>> and the equivalent Gnome apps (and firefox).
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Surprisingly this is 'bleeding edge' stuff (kde 4.6) rather
> > > >>> than the bare
> > >
> > > >>> essentials
> > > >>> and doesn't work on my up to date ubuntu 10.10 installation
> > > >>> which is
> > >still
> > >
> > > >> on
> > > >>
> > > >>> kde 4.5.1.
> > > >>> (actually this is beyond the bleeding edge as the tag needs
> > > >>> to be
> > >declared
> > >
> > > >>> first, but you get the idea)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Regards,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Bruce.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Nepomuk mailing list
> > > >>> Nepomuk at kde.org
> > > >>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk
> > > >>>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Nepomuk mailing list
> > > >> Nepomuk at kde.org
> > > >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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