[Nepomuk] Re: nepomuk & gnome & firefox
Adrien Bustany
madcat at mymadcat.com
Sat Nov 20 20:09:13 CET 2010
Hi all,
on GNOME the standard semantic engine is called Tracker
(tracker-project.org). It also uses the Nepomuk ontologies, so it
should be easy to make things work the same in GNOME and KDE. Having a
common interface surely sounds like a good idea. The question is now if
we want a high level interface (ie. "add a tag") or a low level one
("run sparql query")...
Cheers
Adrien
Le Sat, 20 Nov 2010 02:06:51 +0000 (GMT),
Bruce Adams <tortoise_74 at yahoo.co.uk> a écrit :
>
> Hi,
> If I may ask what is the other project? As it will obvious have
> bearings on where
> you want to focus your efforts.
>
> Brainstorming sounds like a good plan. Perhaps starting with a wide
> scope before narrowing down to what is in and out of scope
> and ultimately keeping it simple and acheivable.
>
> I'm new so apologies that this probably isn't.
>
> I'd like to start with resource discovery.
> Given a URI we need to know.
> what services provide meta data for it
> what kind of meta data each service provides (reference to an
> ontology?)
>
> Given a mounted disk semantic information could be provided by one or
> more of at least the following:
> a (e.g. nepomuk) server using a user specific database
> a local server using a shared database
> a remove server using a shared database
> a filesystem that permits embedded semantic information.
>
> Ideally I'd like to be able to do the same for a web-page which is
> why I said URI
> rather than file. Including web-pages would most likely imply using
> W3 standard methods for passing semantic information around.
>
> I'm not clear if or how nepomuk handles security issues relating to
> users sharing
> a database and controlling access and visibility of it.
>
> For each resource we need to know what priviledges we have.
> Most importantly is it read only.
>
> I'm primarily interested in tagging folksonomies.
> I'm sufficiently new that I don't know how (in)compatible the
> ontologies used by nepomuk are with those used elsewhere (OSCAF and
> Gnome).
>
> The paper http://tagont.googlecode.com/files/TagOntPaper.pdf
> suggests a common ontology.
> It includes the following suggested queries which look a lot like
> some of my tagging use cases.
>
> • get all taggers
> • get all tags used by a tagger X
> • get all resources which have been tagged more
> than once
> • get all tags for a resource A
> • get tags from users X,Y,Z for resource A
>
>
> Myself I would very much like an API that just provides this without
> having to writes SPARQL
> queries as that lowers the entry requirements for using it.
>
> Some more vague ramblings in the direction of a (C++) API before I
> head off to sleep.
> I had something like this in mind for a libtagger.so which it what
> started me searching for information
> and led me to nepomuk.
>
> Entity -> File or URL
> Service - description of a meta data provider
> Tag - includes a simple string name
>
> std::set<Service> Entity::listServiceProviders()
>
> std::set< Tag> Entity::listTags()
> std::set< Tag> Entity::listTags(<semantic info provider or list
> there>) std::set< Tag> Entity::listTags(<some kind of filter>)
>
> <some kind of status, or just exceptions when it goes wrong>
> Entity::addTag(tag)
>
> methods to convert a tag to and from a string simply
> Tag::Tag(std::string) -
> std::string Tag::toString()
>
> perhaps this is only sensible in the context of a given service
> provider?
>
> Service::listDefinedTags();
>
> Entity::addTag(service, tag, bool createTag)
>
> I have to say some of this bears a resemblance to the existing
> nepomuk API but simplified with not an ontology in sight (though its
> there under the hood).
>
> Meta-data aware file ops.
>
> CopyFile - copy file & meta-data
> MoveFile - move file & meta-data
>
> The following would apply to URLs as well:
>
> CopyMetaData( file1, file2) - overwrite the meta data for file2
> with that for file1
> CopyMetaData( file, provider1, provider2) - copy the meta data one
> provide has for a file to another provider
> ExportMetaData(file); - to file or a (opaque?) meta data object
> ImportMetaData(file);
>
> These would need to be clever enough to decide what to do based on
> the resource providers for the start and end points.
>
> I was thinking about cobbling this kind of API together for my next
> project.
>
> I also wonder about having a backup file-system based metadata
> database along the lines of
>
> <dir>
> <file to tag>
> ,metadata/
> tags/
> <file to tag> <- contains tags as RDF, XML or a list of
> strings one per line.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Sebastian Trüg <trueg at kde.org>
> > To: Bruce Adams <tortoise_74 at yahoo.co.uk>
> > Cc: nepomuk at kde.org
> > Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 2:18:30 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Nepomuk] Re: nepomuk & gnome & firefox
> >
> > Actually I have planned to start on that API mid of next week since
> > I need it for another project. Maybe a good idea to start would be
> > to brainstorm on the necessary method the API would require, ie.
> > come up with a bunch of use cases.
> >
> > We could put that on techbase.kde.org...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Sebastian
> >
> > On 11/17/2010 02:24 PM, Bruce Adams wrote:
> > >
> > > That's pretty much exactly what I'm looking for.
> > > So I'm happy to collaborate on any efforts to get something like
> > > that
> going.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Bruce.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > >> From: Sebastian Trüg <trueg at kde.org>
> > >> To: nepomuk at kde.org
> > >> Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 1:04:19 PM
> > >> Subject: [Nepomuk] Re: nepomuk & gnome & firefox
> > >>
> > >> This is what I mean: a DBUs API that provides what the
> > >> Nepomuk-KDE API provides at the moment.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> Sebastian
> > >>
> > >> On 11/17/2010 09:58 AM, Bruce Adams wrote:
> > >>> ----- Original Message ----
> > >>>
> > >>>> From: Richard Dale <richard.j.dale at gmail.com>
> > >>>> To: nepomuk at kde.org
> > >>>> Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 5:40:17 PM
> > >>>> Subject: [Nepomuk] Re: nepomuk & gnome & firefox
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Sebastian Trüg
> > >>>> <trueg at kde.org>
> wrote:
> > >>>>> The solution is simply what I said: we support the tracker
> > >>>>> API and that's it. The other way around is not possible
> > >>>>> anyway.
> > >>>> OK, how would you like to support the tracker API? I'm
> > >>>> still not
> clear
> > >>>> on what you are saying.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> One way would be to write a Tracker backend for Soprano 2.x
> > >>>> which would support a subset of the Virtuoso backend's
> > >>>> functionality.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Another way would be to write a QSparql based backend for
> > >>>> Soprano 2.x which would interface with Tracker, and also
> > >>>> support SPARQL endpoints and Virtuoso as a side effect,
> > >>>> although you would be perfectly
> welcome
> > >>>> not to use that extra functionality as the drivers are only
> > >>>> plugins. I happen to be an expert on the Tracker apis (both
> > >>>> the DBus one and the newer 'direct api'), and the Tracker
> > >>>> team are cooperating to improve their api WRT its use in
> > >>>> QSparql. I am also an active KDE developer who has
> > >>>> developed language bindings for Soprano and Nepomuk, and I
> > >>>> am quite happy to work on KDE things in my spare time. So if
> > >>>> anyone can do this particular task I feel I should be about
> > >>>> the person person to try.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I don't know what your plans for Soprano 3.x are as I
> > >>>> haven't studied the code yet.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -- Richard
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> From my angle as a noob a lot of this is missing the point.
> > >>> I want to read and write tag clouds in a platform independent
> > >>> way. A rich ontology is all very well (and vitally important
> > >>> for more advanced
> >
> > >> uses).
> > >>> But at the start of the day I want to be able to do something
> > >>> like:
> > >>>
> > >>> Nepomuk::File file( "some/path");
> > >>> file.addTag("foo");
> > >>>
> > >>> Just like in the examples here:
> > >>>
> > >>> http://api.kde.org/4.x-api/kdelibs-apidocs/nepomuk/html/examples.html
> > >>>
> > >>> and see the tag "foo" appear in the "quickview" in dolphin and
> > >>> the equivalent Gnome apps (and firefox).
> > >>>
> > >>> Surprisingly this is 'bleeding edge' stuff (kde 4.6) rather
> > >>> than the bare
> >
> > >>> essentials
> > >>> and doesn't work on my up to date ubuntu 10.10 installation
> > >>> which is
> >still
> >
> > >> on
> > >>
> > >>> kde 4.5.1.
> > >>> (actually this is beyond the bleeding edge as the tag needs
> > >>> to be
> >declared
> >
> > >>> first, but you get the idea)
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>>
> > >>> Bruce.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Nepomuk mailing list
> > >>> Nepomuk at kde.org
> > >>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Nepomuk mailing list
> > >> Nepomuk at kde.org
> > >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nepomuk mailing list
> Nepomuk at kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk
More information about the Nepomuk
mailing list