KMyMoney 4.6.6 - unable to delete or edit a transaction.

Tue Jun 5 13:10:51 UTC 2018

Eric,

On Dienstag, 5. Juni 2018 14:50:08 CEST Eric Watson wrote:

> Hi Thomas,
> 
> To 'open' the account I follow the following procedure:
> 
> 1. Click 'View' in the list of options above the 'Financial Summary'
> 
> 2. In the drop down list I select 'Show all accounts'
> 
>  From there I thought I could mange the bad account.
> 
> Following your suggestions I was able to access the entry and found that 
> the 'Transactions options' menu entries were all available. I decided to 
> delete the transaction and remake it, pointing to the correct open 
> account B1 this time. That worked correctly.

Cool. We got it working.

> I thank all for the assistance given.
> 
> In respect of the 'old' version I am using, perhaps you can advise?
> 
> As I said, I am using Linux  Ubuntu xubuntu and download all packages 
> from their distributions which results in updates and security being 
> dealt with by them.
> 
> Joe is also using Linux, a Debian version and now has a working new version.

I am not a debian user so I can't give hints on what to do on those distros.

> In respect of version 4.8.2, when I go to the relevant web page, under 
> that heading I see:
> 
> "Binary packages are available from related Linux distributions and for 
> 32 and 64 bit Windows from the KDEdownload mirror network 
> <http://download.kde.org/stable/kmymoney/4.8.2/>".

> When I access that mirror network I find only src/, win32/ and win64/ 
> are available. I do not see any Linux distribution.

Yes, for Linux distros we provide source code and the distro mainainers package them to installable binaries. The KMyMoney maintainer for the 4.8 branch decided to provide windows binaries as well.

> I dual boot Windows 10 but avoid using it.

I am unsure in what state the windows version is atm so you should try to get an updated *buntu package. Maybe another user can be of help here while maintaining a fallback onto the current version.

Best regards

Thomas

> 
> On 05/06/18 06:49, Thomas Baumgart wrote:
> > Hi Eric,
> >
> > me again. So my idea of a closed account was in the right direction. I am glad that there is a logical explanation.
> >
> > When you say, you opened the account, do you mean you selected the ledger view for this account? That is not, what Jack meant. A closed account needs to be re-opened before you can modify transactions in it.
> >
> > Here's (one way) of doing that:
> >
> > - select the accounts view and right click on the closed account
> > - select "Reopen account"
> > - continue by selecting the ledger of this re-opened account,
> > - right click on the transaction which should not belong there
> > - select "Move to" and the account you want to have it in.
> >
> > Now the balance of this (re-opened) account should be zero again and you can close it (using Account/Close) once more.
> >
> > Hope this helps. If not, please let us know. We are very close to the solution of your problem.
> >
> > I wonder why you were able to enter this transaction in the first place. Newer versions won't allow you to do that.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> > On Montag, 4. Juni 2018 23:32:10 CEST Eric Watson wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Jack,
> >>
> >> I did say, I opened the closed account. However the "move" is grayed out
> >> too.
> >>
> >> The "move" is available in account A1 but it just moves the origin, not
> >> the destination.
> >>
> >> Eric
> >>
> >> On 04/06/18 22:17, Jack wrote:
> >>> Maybe. Can you reopen that closed account?  If so, then you should be
> >>> able to go to it's ledger, right click on the transaction, and "move"
> >>> it to the correct account.  Then re-close the old account. No need to
> >>> delete and recreate the transaction.
> >>>
> >>> If that doesn't work, I'll wait for Thomas' suggestion, and maybe he
> >>> will have an idea why it allowed you to create a transfer to a closed
> >>> account.  In addition, in theory, if you hover over the transaction, I
> >>> think you really should get a tooltip saying something like "Unable to
> >>> edit transaction for account 'name of closed account' which is closed."
> >>>
> >>> On 2018.06.04 17:09, Eric Watson wrote:
> >>>> Hi Jack,
> >>>>
> >>>> Sorry about the name confusion.
> >>>>
> >>>>  From your suggestions I have found what has caused the problem but
> >>>> cannot rectify it.
> >>>>
> >>>> It also has a name confusion! Last year I had a savings account (now
> >>>> closed) with a name almost identical to the name of the account B1.
> >>>> In fact I had to edit the account name to differentiate it
> >>>>
> >>>>   It appears that I made the transfer from A1 to the closed account
> >>>> and it was accepted without error.
> >>>>
> >>>> I opened all accounts and found the £500 transfer in the closed
> >>>> account. However, I cannot delete it from A1 or the closed account.
> >>>>
> >>>> Are you able to assist now we know the cause?
> >>>>
> >>>> Eric
> >>>>
> >>>> On 04/06/18 21:45, Jack wrote:
> >>>>> On 2018.06.04 15:44, Eric Watson wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi Jack,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I will answer your suggestions in the order made:
> >>>>> That was Thomas, although we both try to help. :-)  Your answers to
> >>>>> my questions also helped clarify the situation, although not what is
> >>>>> actually wrong.
> >>>>>> In the category field, (Deposit, Transfer, Withdrawal) it shows as
> >>>>>> a Transfer and both the Pay to and Transfer to are completed
> >>>>>> correctly. I am aware of the error indications shown in KMM. I have
> >>>>>> also noticed that in addition to the grayed out Transfer pop-up
> >>>>>> list, the options above the Deposit, Transfer, Withdrawal are all
> >>>>>> grayed out except for New.
> >>>>> In the context menu, below the move and mark entries, there should
> >>>>> also be two entries like "Go to B1" in one case showing the payee
> >>>>> (Pay To) and the other case (Transfer To) being the account to which
> >>>>> the funds should have gone.  If either of those are present, select
> >>>>> them (one separate try for each) to see where it takes you.  If
> >>>>> neither is present, I'm a bit at a loss.
> >>>>>> I have used KMM for a number of years and never have had a problem
> >>>>>> with correctly entering Transfers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Could I have created a black hole?
> >>>>> Unlikely, but it appears that although the correct account shows in
> >>>>> the "Transfer to" field, the money has not shown up there.
> >>>>> One other place to look - in the Payees view, select the payee shown
> >>>>> in the Pay To field (in case it wasn't on the context menu) and see
> >>>>> how the transaction looks there.  See what the context menu (right
> >>>>> click) looks like there also.
> >>>>>> When hovering over any transaction I have never noticed a tool tip.
> >>>>>> No tool tip appears in this case.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The account A1 was created on 23/8/15 and the 'bad' entry was
> >>>>>> created on 1/6/20
> >>>>> When was account B1 created?
> >>>>>> I used the KMM consistency tool and it reported, "Finished: data is
> >>>>>> consistent". I downloaded KMM from Ubuntu and am not sure if your
> >>>>>> latest version would work correctly in xubuntu, hence the old version.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One further comment I have is that I have not transfered the money
> >>>>>> to the wrong account because if £500 was entered in B1 all of the
> >>>>>> accounts held in the bank are reconciled with those in KMM. I could
> >>>>>> bodge the result by making a cash entry of £500 in B1.
> >>>>> Just in case, go to the Accounts view and see if there might be an
> >>>>> "extra" account present you didn't know about.  I don't think you
> >>>>> will find one, but clearly things are not behaving how we think they
> >>>>> should, and it's easy enough to look.
> >>>>>> Eric
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 04/06/18 20:15, Thomas Baumgart wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi Eric,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> see my comments inline below
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Montag, 4. Juni 2018 19:16:17 CEST Eric Watson wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Jack,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The actual pysical bank shows the transfer occurred correctly. It
> >>>>>>>> is the
> >>>>>>>> entries in KMM which are incorrect. Account A1 is less £500 but
> >>>>>>>> account
> >>>>>>>> B1 never received the transaction. Therefore the total Assets are
> >>>>>>>> £500
> >>>>>>>> less than they should be in KMM. (Not in the actual bank!). £500 has
> >>>>>>>> gone missing in KMM!
> >>>>>>> That means, the transaction was recorded in A1 but it does not
> >>>>>>> have B1 assigned to it. If you look at the transaction form when
> >>>>>>> this transaction is selected, what does it show in the category
> >>>>>>> field? In case it is empty, the transaction should be shown in red
> >>>>>>> and an exclamation mark inside a yellow triangle should be shown
> >>>>>>> in the register. In case that icon is not visible, the category
> >>>>>>> must have something in it (thanks to double-entry accounting I am
> >>>>>>> very sure about this).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If I delete the transaction in A1 I can then re-make it and
> >>>>>>>> hopefully,
> >>>>>>>> this time it will show as a deposit by transfer in B1, making the
> >>>>>>>> Assets
> >>>>>>>> total correct.
> >>>>>>> Yes, make sure to use B1 as the category or 'transfer to'.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Well, for some reason the money left one account but did not
> >>>>>>>> appear in
> >>>>>>>> the other in KMM.
> >>>>>>> Please see above. I went somewhere and is not lost. There is no
> >>>>>>> such thing as black holes in the KMyMoney application ;)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As  said in my post, yes I get a pop-up 'Transactions options'
> >>>>>>>> list when
> >>>>>>>> hovering over the entry but the only entries in the list which
> >>>>>>>> are not
> >>>>>>>> grayed out (unusable), are new, move or mark. Both delete and
> >>>>>>>> edit are
> >>>>>>>> grayed out.
> >>>>>>> This seems to be the case, when you press the right mouse button.
> >>>>>>> This opens the so called context menu for the transaction.
> >>>>>>> Hovering means to move the mouse over the transaction and then
> >>>>>>> waiting for a so called tool-tip to appear. It could be, that
> >>>>>>> nothing happens which is OK. In case KMyMoney identifies a problem
> >>>>>>> it will tell you in this tool-tip.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On the other hand, 4.6.6 is rather old. Could it be, that the
> >>>>>>> transaction's post date is prior to the opening date of the
> >>>>>>> account? You can see the account's opening date by selecting
> >>>>>>> Account/Edit. It is one of the things I could think of why
> >>>>>>> KMyMoney does not allow you to change the transaction.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On the same day, at the same time I made an identical £500
> >>>>>>>> transfer from
> >>>>>>>> A1 to C1 and the 'Transaction options' list is correct, all
> >>>>>>>> entries are
> >>>>>>>> available, none grayed out and the transaction took place correctly.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The error therefore is; why are some entries grayed out? Also,
> >>>>>>>> why did
> >>>>>>>> the transfer not appear in the other account?
> >>>>>>> I hope I gave some explanations to both of the questions.
> >>>>>>>> I have saved the file but don't know what you mean by, "consistency
> >>>>>>>> check". It opens ok again without any change.
> >>>>>>> See the menu Tools/Consistency check. You can run it manually and
> >>>>>>> KMyMoney (at least newer versions and I am not sure about 4.6.6
> >>>>>>> right now) runs it automatically as part of the save operation. If
> >>>>>>> you run it manually I expect it not to show any problems.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In case all this does not help, please let us know what you found
> >>>>>>> out while looking at the various things I mentioned above. We will
> >>>>>>> get you going.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thomas
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 04/06/18 17:29, Jack wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 2018.06.04 11:40, Eric Watson wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> In my Ledger I have and entry which was made as a payment
> >>>>>>>>>> transfer of
> >>>>>>>>>> funds to a savings account in the Ledger.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The funds were never actually transferred but are recorded in the
> >>>>>>>>>> originating account as transferred.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> eg. A1 account transfers £500 to B1 account. A1 account total is
> >>>>>>>>>> correct but B1 account is £500 short.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I would like to delete the entry in A1 account and remake it so
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> transfer amount appears in the B1 account.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> When I right click on the bad entry I get the Transfer options
> >>>>>>>>>> menu.
> >>>>>>>>>> On this menu both edit and delete are grayed out leaving the only
> >>>>>>>>>> options, new, move or mark.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Advice would be appreciated please.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Eric
> >>>>>>>>> Just to be sure I understand, you created a transaction which
> >>>>>>>>> transferred £500 from account A1 to account B1, and the bank
> >>>>>>>>> does show
> >>>>>>>>> the money has left A1, but it has not yet arrived in B1.
> >>>>>>>>> However, I am
> >>>>>>>>> not sure what you are trying to do.  If you delete the transaction
> >>>>>>>>> from A1, then will it not have £500 extra?  Also, since KMM follows
> >>>>>>>>> the principles of double entry bookkeeping, any money leaving one
> >>>>>>>>> account has to be added to some other account.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> However, if the program will not let you edit the transaction,
> >>>>>>>>> we have
> >>>>>>>>> to figure out why.  If it will let you move or mark it, then it
> >>>>>>>>> really
> >>>>>>>>> should let you edit or delete.  If you just hover the mouse over
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> transaction, is there any popup indicating any sort of error
> >>>>>>>>> condition?  If you save the file, does the consistency check
> >>>>>>>>> show any
> >>>>>>>>> error about that transaction?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Jack
> 
> 

-- 

Regards

Thomas Baumgart

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