[Kmymoney-devel] Feature request

Sun Mar 2 02:11:17 UTC 2014

Roy,

I've been using KMM for many years. I switched from MS Money in 2005. I've
been in the user groups for almost that long and I read most of the
messages.

I think many of the questions that beginners ask are pretty typical for
anyone that is just starting with any of these programs and I don't think
double entry has anything to do with it. The term is probably confusing to
many if they take it literally (which it was when bookkeeping was done on
paper ledgers). In my case I'd call it almost zero entry accounting since I
download almost all of my transactions from my banks using OFX connect in
KMM. One click every day or two and everything is up to date a minute
later. I'm in the US and most of my banks can be accessed directly by KMM.
It was not this way when I started so be thankful.

Some of the basic concepts like transferring money between accounts when
paying your credit card bill and how to deal with all the categories with a
paycheck took a little effort to understand but once you get it they make
complete sense. It sounds like you have a good understanding of accounting
so this should not be an issue. If not there are plenty of people here to
help.

Aside form potential users being concerned about having to enter every
transaction twice, I'm not sure why this method of accounting is scaring
off users or you. When I enter a payment in my checking account that pays
off my credit card the payment is entered once by me (or via my online
banking download) but ends up in both accounts. It seems to me that is
saves a step compared to single entry accounting (if there is such a thing)
where I assume I would have to enter both ends of the transaction
separately. Single entry accounting sounds like a checkbook register for
each account with no link between them. If that's what KMM was doing I'd be
using GNUCash:-)

While you did not explain how Intuit was abusing it users I assume from
your later comments it is by forcing upgrades paid and making the program
worse. Have no fear, if you want to run the latest version of KMM you can
download and compile KMM as often as you like. I wrote a couple of scripts
a while back to automate most of this process and I'm usually running a
version that is only a week or two old. I can even add patches when one
looks interesting and I want to help test it. If you are running KMM on
Linux I'd be glad to share my scripts with you. Older versions were posted
on the userlist several years ago.

One thing I'm guessing Intuit does not offer Quicken users is the ability
to ask for features. I have been asking for new features for years and have
seen many of my recommendations incorporated as developer time permits. I
suggest adjusting the tone of your request if you want the volunteer
developers to consider your request and be ready to test the changes if you
want to fine tune how the changes work. I would just lower your
expectations if you want them to change the fundamental principles KMM is
based on. Even if you asked nicely I would not hold my breath.

*----Brendan*

On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Chris <DeveloperChris at rebel.com.au> wrote:

>  scroll down
>
>
>
> On 2/03/2014 10:08 AM, Roy O'Kelly wrote:
>
>  I will try the tool, but keep in mind that I did not try it because I
> read the evaluations and your website. Both prominently refer to double
> entry book keeping and that put me off. It would put off most consumers
> here. The US does not require me (a consumer) to use a double entry book
> keeping system for my personal records. I'm held responsible for the
> accuracy of my tax payments and how I do them is my decision.
>
>
>
> I'm not looking for a Quick Books replacement. I'm looking for a Quicken
> replacement. If AUS requires double entry then Quicken may not be a factor
> in your market. Here it is far and away the dominant personal finance
> manager and they have taken full advantage of that position. You are forced
> to buy an new copy every 3 years or your electronic download capabilities
> stop working. That would be bad enough, but they break more than they fix
> every 3 years and the quality of the product has steadily deteriorated.
>
>
> It is for this exact reason I moved to KMyMoney. Unfortunately as you have
> noted you cannot totally escape double entry jargon. as confusing as it is.
> but you certainly don't need to enter the same information twice. KmyMoney
> handles that and will automatically split transactions if you require it.
>
> Personally I don't enter information at all (ok I do sometimes). I just
> import my bank statements and credit card statements. Kmymoney handles the
> rest :)
>
> Unfortunately KMyMoney can't import my bank statements directly as they
> are in an odd format and so most of my time is spent massaging them into a
> standard format
>
> Apart from that It's easy. So I suggest you try. and I for one would
> welcome suggestions to improve it.
>
> DC
>
>
>
> Thanx
>
> Roy
>
>
>
> *From:* Chris [mailto:DeveloperChris at rebel.com.au<DeveloperChris at rebel.com.au>]
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 01, 2014 5:26 PM
> *To:* Roy O'Kelly; kmymoney-devel at kde.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Kmymoney-devel] Feature request
>
>
>
> So what you are saying is not "don't use double entry" But "hide double
> entry from the user"
>
> In my experience with KMyMoney it is mostly hidden.
>
> Ultimately if any accounting system is going to be used by an accountant
> for preparing your taxes. or even if you do them yourself. The tax office
> requires double entry. At least In Aus that's how I understand it.
>
> > I confess I have not tried your demo
>
> Then why are you commenting?
>
> Perhaps its better to try KMyMoney and suggest improvements. Sweeping
> statements don't help anybody. and you might be surprised at how good
> KMyMoney actually is. But rememeber its a personal account keeping system
> so it is not designed to compete against quicken business accounting
> systems.
>
> Having said that Its my goal to bridge some of that gap :)
>
> DC
>
> On 2/03/2014 9:20 AM, Roy O'Kelly wrote:
>
> I'm very familiar with double entry and understand the purpose. I confess
> I have not tried your demo, but the majority of complaints I see from users
> seem to center on the double entry menus. I would use the same entry menus
> that Quicken, MS Money and others use. It would be one or two  lines within
> an account that accepts the category of the expense or an account name if
> the transaction is a transfer to/from another account e.g. a transfer from
> checking to cash. It would also have the Payee, amount, and room for a
> note. It would look a lot like a check.
>
>
>
> Since all accounts are reconciled against account statements any entry
> errors in the amount are quickly caught. Admittedly, categorization errors
> can occur, but those few errors are of questionable concern and do not
> justify complicating (what should be) a simple data entry process.  I could
> never (for example) get my wife to enter the same transaction in two
> accounts. God forbid I would need to explain debits and credits. Some
> accounting classes no longer use those terms.
>
>
>
> If you want to compete with the Quicken's of the world (and I'd like to
> see you do that) you cannot have an entry scheme that only an accountant
> can love.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Roy
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Chris [mailto:DeveloperChris at rebel.com.au<DeveloperChris at rebel.com.au>]
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 01, 2014 4:39 PM
> *To:* Roy O'Kelly; kmymoney-devel at kde.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Kmymoney-devel] Feature request
>
>
>
>
> Double entry is a system designed to catch errors. People still make
> mistakes when entering data (and programming). It is still relevant in
> today's world.
>
> I am curious. what system would you replace it with?
>
> DC
>
>
>
>  On 2/03/2014 7:57 AM, Roy O'Kelly wrote:
>
> You could actually have a successful product on your hands, but you need
> to let go of double entry book keeping. The age of computers is here and it
> just doesn't make sense for a consumer any more (if it ever did).
>
> Quicken continues to abuse their customers, there isn't a decent
> competitor in the field. Do it!
>
> Roy
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
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