boud at valdyas.org
Thu Jun 9 15:30:45 CEST 2011
On Wednesday 08 June 2011 Jun, David REVOY wrote:
> >> Regarding the logic confusion: the opacity option in the brush editor
> >> controls the mask opacity. That is different opacity then the one in
> >> the tool bar.
> >> The global opacity (in the toolbar) is used to composite the final
> >> dab with canvas.
> >> So there is difference. Now there is slider in the option that
> >> controls both..not sure
> >> if that is good idea.
> > It's of course logical for us, because we know how everything works
> > internally.
> > But just try to think like a user who doesn't know what a brush mask is,
> > doesn't care about
> > the internal workings of krita and just want to paint.
> > The user sees an opacity slider int the toolbar and thinks when he will
> > set it to 30% the brush stroke will
> > be 30% opaque (ok at least I would expect this :D).
> > But the previous situation was that this 30% where actually 30% of the
> > opacity set in the preset editor.
> > So, when the opacity in the preset editor is set to 70% the overall
> > opacity would be 30% of 70%.
> > I don't really see any benefit in this.
> > I mean I didn't notice this, too (because I know the internals as well).
> > I just noticed as I read one of Davids mails and it seemed to me that he
> > was a bit confused
> > about the two different opacity values.
> Yes I was confused by Krita naming and options but reading this
> discution, I can understand more where is the problem now (I guess )
> 2 big topic are confusing for my user experience with Krita :
>  the 2 opacity sliders mess :
> - The opacity in the preset editor seams to be in fact a bad named
> *flow* parameters ; other software use this label name for 'opacity per
> dab' or 'opacity per brushmask' .
So basically, Silvio implemented "flow" without know? But in photoshop and corel painter, flow is another slider in the main toolbar, isn't it? Should we also add it there?
> - The global opacity slider seams to be a real *opacity* parameters ;
> used for global compositing of the end result stroke.
> ex : ( http://david.revoy.free.fr/forums/krita/opacity-and-flow.jpg ,
> This 2 parameters , (advanced) Artist understand it, and it's useful. )
>  the 2 'painting modes' mess
> In Krita actually there is "2 modes" that wan be a bit obscure .
> - In 'Build up' , the 2 opacity sliders behave for one as a "flow" ,
> and other (global one ) as "opacity". Fine.
> "Build up" looks like what I know from Gimp and Photoshop. The
> behavior is predictable.
> - In 'Wash' , the 2 opacity sliders are just an indentation of the same
> effect setting ; and there is a weird effect only Krita has ;
> a weird alpha self collision with the previous alpha of the previous dab
> : (
> Wash mode was useful for me when I couldn't save the 'global
> opacity' slider of a brush preset ; at this time, this 2 painting modes
> acted as a switch between 'per dab opacity' and ' global opacity'. But
> now I can save the 'global opacity' in build up ; wash mode became obsolete.
Oh good! Then we can _remove_ an option :-). I think our preset editor was getting a bit too crowded in places :-)
We had wash because the strokes were always too dark, back in the 1.6 days. Bart Coppens implemented this separation, I seem to remember. It's not quite the same as Gimp's direct and indirect painting mode, but it was meant to make sure you could, in one stroke, repeatedly go over the same area without making the result darker.
> [X] So, Solution proposed :
> 1) Name the "opacity in the preset editor" category 'Flow'
> 2) Include the "global opacity" as a new categorie in the preset editor,
> acting as "opacity"
> 3) This will result of a remove of 'Wash' mode to keep only "Build up" ;
> and so removing the choice and option.
> 4) add 2 sliders on the top toolbar option : "opacity" and "flow" sync
> with the preset editor as in Gimp and Photoshop (
> http://david.revoy.free.fr/forums/krita/opacity-and-flow_othersoft.jpg )
Sounds like a good plan to me -- do others agree?
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org, http://www.krita.org
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