Fwd: Re: Need user feedback - PPC issues

[John Califf]

Thanks for forwarding this.  I'm not sure what any of these things have
to do with PPC issues I asked about - evidently there was some mail
about PPC issues prior to this. 

As a preface to all the observations below, it would be nice to have all
these features.  Almost nothing below is a priority for the near future,
with the exception of completion of some items which currently are
half-finished and some gui features.

Priorities are completion of the basic tools (text tool, burn tool and
the rest of the selection tools), implementation of all the blending
methods, basic documentation, saving of options, etc.  Most of the
things mentioned below can be added later, I think, so long as the
infrastructure is robust and open enough to allow it.  I try to always
take that into consideration - allowing for "extras".  Integration with
Killustrator with koffice embedding is being discussed with the
unofficial Killustrator maintainer.  

Currently Krayon is being developed by one person, myself, with no
sponsorship. 
The immediate goal is to provide an easy-to-use painting app for
Koffice, not to recreate Photoshop or Gimp. 

If you'd like to sponsor this project so that I can hire some associates
to  implement all these spiffy features and devote more time to Krayon
myself, feel free.  Also I could use a copy of Photoshop and a box with
more memory and storage (throw in a scanner, pressure-sensitive drawing
tablet, digi-cam, high speed internet connection and a bathroom sink -
mine just rusted out.)

Thank you - John Califf 


PS.  John Grantham did an excellent job on the Kompany web site.  I
forgot to mention that one in my list of sites which enhance the
products being promoted when I critiqued the Koffice site.  It's one of
the few sites with a commercial look that fits in a browser window
nicely and has all the expected "features" without looking too
commercial. 

Shawn Gordon wrote:
> 
> >Hi John, hi Shawn (hey! I made a rhyme!),
> >
> >At 12:48 pm -0800 2/2/01, Shawn Gordon wrote:
> >>Thanks, I forwarded it on.  I know he would love to have as much feedback
> >>as you are willing to give, I would check out
> >>http://www.koffice.org/kimageshop/ and just subscribe to the kimageshop
> >>list (old name for Krayon) and go to town.  Califf has been desperate for
> >>feedback.  You might be able to get it built exactly how you want :)
> >
> >Well, feature number one is...where the hell's Undo/Redo? ;-)
> >

Well, when hell freezes over you might get it.  Please see above
preface, and my response to your next question for undo/redo status.


> >While we're on the subject, one of Photoshop's biggest advantages is the
> >History palette. Basically you can have unlimited Undos with that palette
> >-- the palette has a list of all commands done since opening the file, and
> >you just click on one, and the image jumps back to that state. That's very
> >handy...
> >

Yes unlimited undos would be nice.  I'm not certain how I want to do
undos. There's some command-based undo-redo stuff that I inherited from
KImageshop, which is applicable to some actions.  Others will require
something like a diff of the pixels changed - for example,
brush-strokes.  This can take a lot of memory - it's not like structured
drawing undo/redo, as you know.  To implement undo/redo for all actions
requires an intermediate layer of interpretation between the tools and
the rendering engine.

Undo-redo is not a high priority for the initial release of Krayon, so
long as it's open-ended enought to allow undo-redo for most actions to
be hooked into the various tools, etc. 

 

> >I'll admit I don't have the slightest clue if this is possible under X,
> >but real monitor color calibration would kick a*s, with both RGB and CMYK
> >colorspaces, including (for example) Pantone, Toyo, HKS and other color
> >definitions (of course also with HTML/Web colors, HLS, HSV, Lab and plain RGB).
> >

This one is in the very distant future, I think.

> >Also, a full-screen color sampling tool would be nice. On the Mac, for
> >example, when you have the color chooser window open, you can option-click
> >on any point on the screen to sample and choose that color. Works in most
> >any program on the Mac, and is *extremely* handy for me as a web designer.
> >

This is about the only thing you've mentioned so far that's doable for
the near future. Thanks.

> >(Does it do GIF...? I didn't notice for sure...I know about the Lempel-Ziv
> >problems, but it's kinda whacked not having a Linux program to make GIFs...)
> >

We can load gifs but not save in gif format due to patent restrictions.
Probably you would want to save as a png for similar indexed color.

> >Importing Photoshop docs (*with* text and adjustment layers, along with
> >masks, intact) would be a BIG bonus. GIMP kinda does this already, but not
> >entirely cleanly.

Importing photoshop docs is not something I've even considered and will
be 
in the distant future, if at all.  I've never used photoshop.  A higher
priority is importing gimp .xcf files, and if it can be done through
Gimp I'll probably choose that route.

> >
> >Isn't there a text tool? Am I blind?
> >

You must be, but not in that sense.  I haven't added the text tool yet - 
it will be similar to the other drawing tools - using Qt to mask the
shape and then applying the color or gradient, etc., automatically, to
the layer.  

> >As for the buttons "Brushes", "Gradients" etc. in the Krayon Box, I'd
> >strongly recommend two things: one, use a different font (it's nearly
> >illegible), making them into static bitmaps if need be; and make them into
> >tabs, not buttons (there is no logical connection between the two at the
> >moment -- buttons and the palette underneath).
> >

This sounds like a good idea, although using varying font sizes
depending on screen size might be better.  At a high screen resolution
the lablels might look small, but not at medium resoutions.

> >The palettes should also have some way to collapse them to differing
> >amounts of information -- for example, the colorspace palette should be
> >able to shrink to just RGB (if the pic is in RGB mode), just greyscale (if
> >in greyscale or duplex) and so on.
> >

You can do that already.  However, all the different palettes and
colormodes have not been hooked in so some of them are just stubs right
now.

> >An Information palette would also be nice: one that shows the current XY
> >coordinates of the cursor, size of current selection, etc. Also, an
> >Options palette should be there for whatever the current tool is (to set
> >feathering, anti-aliasing, color fill, etc. as applicable).
> >

Check the toolbar for options. All the drawing and painting tools now
have options dialogs - the wrench button brings up options for current
tool, or use the menu bar, "options" or "settings".  I'm also
considering accessing the options for each tool with a right click on
the tool button in the toolbar itself.

> >Of course, drag and drop up the yin-yang should be in there, too. :-)
> >Especially if one could drag and drop from, say, KIllustrator to Krayon
> >and have vectors bitmapped (and anti-aliased) nicely.
> >
> >Hmm, also import/export of PostScript and EPS files...maybe PDF as well...
> >

Use the clipboard for that functionality right now.  This is one of the
only kde apps to use the clipboard for graphics. Drag and drop is
actually an extension of the global clipboard - but drag and drop per se
has not been specifically added to krayon yet. Killustrator will be an
embedded part, which is much nicer than dragging from another window. 
Regarding import/export we currently use all the formats that Qt can
use.  Others will need to be added later to the koffice filters or with
plugins.  They will not be part of the basic app.  Some of the above may
be accessible via another Kde part for Postscrip and PDF - KGhostview.

> >Well, now that I've bombarded you to smithereens with Mac user
> >fantasies...hope that isn't too much at once, but those were a bunch of
> >spontaneous reactions. More where that came from, if you want it. :-)
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >John
> >--
> >
> >John Grantham   | Dipl.-Designer (FH)
> >                 | Homepage       http://design.macnews.de/
> >                 | Linux for PPC  http://www.maclinux.de/
> >Web Designer    | AGD Member     http://www.agd.de/
>