pretty mailman listinfo pages?
Gérard Talbot
browserbugs at gtalbot.org
Mon Dec 23 16:52:53 UTC 2013
[I am re-sending this to the mailing list. Somehow, it did not get
through... don't know why... Gérard]
Le 2013-12-22 20:44, Ben Cooksley a écrit :
> On Dec 23, 2013 1:40 PM, "Scarlett Clark"
> <scarlett at scarlettgatelyclark.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Sunday, December 22, 2013 07:26:55 PM Felix Miata wrote:
>> > On 2013-12-22 07:41 (GMT-0700) Scarlett Clark composed:
>> > > Lydia Pintscher wrote:
>> > >> Scarlett Clark wrote:
>> > >> > I have time, however I do not have the rest of the thread, what
> did you
>> > >> > have in mind?
>> >
>> > The whole thread:
>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/private/kde-www/2013-May/005373.html
Hello all,
I posted a message in that /kde-www/2013-May/005373 thread: that's why I
am responding in this thread.
>> >
>> > Note the OP cites two sites the OP thought were nice, but are rudely[1]
>> > styled via CSS text sizing that wholly disregards users' optimal size as
>> > reflected by their browsers' default text size settings.
>> >
>> > >> Great. I have forwarded the other messages to you.
>> > >
>> > > Definitely something I can do, I will start working on this first
> thing
>> > > tomorrow.
>> >
>> > Please do nothing, or at most, be conservative. It would be a shame to
> see
>> > more differ than what the one that differs from the other 11 of the
> first
>> > dozen on http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/mailmanimg201312.html or become as
>> > rude[1] as most of the web is today.
>> >
What Felix qualifies as "rude" I would describe it as annoying and
irritating: having to read a text that is too small for me is a pain.
Most of the time, web authors have little or no idea what the impact of
their font-size declarations are actually doing.
>> > There's a *lot* to be said for the friendly default mailman styling
> being
>> > kept constant across its many installations.
>> >
>> > [1] http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/rudeweb.html
>>
>> I only want to help and I have no desire to upset anyone. I will not
>> do
>> anything then.
>> Scarlett
>
> Hi Scarlett,
>
> Thanks for your interest. Please be aware that Fleix in no way
> represents
> the KDE Community in general, and any work towards this goal of themed
> pages is much appreciated.
If font-size declarations do not promote user-friendliness and
accessibility for people with lowered visions, ageing baby-boomers, then
such themed pages should be improved accordingly.
I do not wish to discourage anyone from updating or modifying any
webpages under the control of www-kde people.
>
> Please don't feel discouraged by his message. If you have any questions
> on
> this feel free to contact me.
>
> @Felix: such aggressive tones towards new contributors is not
> appreciated,
> please be aware that your views are in the minority. Please respect the
> code of conduct in all messages to this list.
Ben, regarding best and most accessible font-size declarations, *_Felix
speaks for me_*. I may not agree with a few of his choices of
epithetes/adjectives here and there, but Felix indisputably understands
this font-size issue.
>
> Thanks,
> Ben Cooksley
> KDE Sysadmin
This is what I wrote in
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/private/kde-www/2013-May/005380.html :
"
It is generally admitted and acknowledged that absolute pixel size for
text is a bad idea. Best is to use 1em or 100% or medium which
correspond to the users' preferred font size for body text.
line-height: 180% is okay although 150% is recommended.
"
"
Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0, Success Criterion 1.4.8 Visual
Presentation:
For the visual presentation of blocks of text, a mechanism is available
to achieve the following: (Level AAA)
Line spacing (leading) is at least space-and-a-half within paragraphs,
and paragraph spacing is at least 1.5 times larger than the line
spacing.
"
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG/#visual-audio-contrast-visual-presentation
More references (on top of already mentioned references by Felix)
---------------
Getting started with practical web accessibility, section 1 Twelve
simple rules: Rule 10: Adjustable font size
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/acc/1.11.html
"
1. Text font and size
This paragraph (and the heading and subheading above) is in your
browser's default font (typeface) and default (base) text size. Web
pages often try to override this size for their body text. The
better-designed sites won't do this (...)
"
Accessible Web design: Setting up your browser
http://www.syntacticweb.co.uk/calib.htm
The Wrong Size Fonts
Or why not to over-ride the reader’s font size
http://sbpoley.home.xs4all.nl/webmatters/fontsize.html
"
Browsers allow the user to set a default font size which will be applied
to any font that is not given an explicit size by the displayed page. It
is easy for the user to change this size after a page is displayed.
(...)
If you do not specify any font size at all (as on the pages you are
reading), text will appear in the default size that was selected by the
user. (...)
If you specify a font size using units of px, some browsers will not
resize the text, even if the user changes the default size. This may
result in text which is too small for the user to read or (less likely)
too large to fit in the width of the user's window. (...)
If you use 100% for most of your content, the user will be able to read
it with ease, since the size matches the user's default.
"
Truth and Consequences of Web Design: Font size
http://web.archive.org/web/20090529000800/http://pages.prodigy.net/chris_beall/TC/Font%20size.html
"
The accepted norm by proponents of web accessibility is to set body text
size at 100% (or 1em). This equates to the visitor's default text size,
whatever that may be, and is known as relative sizing. It is A Good
Thing.
"
Sensible type sizing on the web by Bergamot
http://web.archive.org/web/20111116081550/http://www.bergamotus.ws/misc/sensible-css-text-sizing.html
"
If you come across a site which ignores your browser settings, and as a
result is awkward for you to read, I strongly recommend you complain to
the owner/webmaster of the site.
"
Author: Stephen Poley
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/main/adjust.html
"
Accessibility features in Firefox - Make Firefox and web content work
for all users Overriding Page Fonts
(...)
sites may rely on the browser's default fonts. You can set your default
fonts by opening the Preferences window, selecting the Content panel,
and selecting a default font and size in the Fonts & Colors section.
"
coming from
Accessibility features in Firefox - Make Firefox and web content work
for all users
Overriding Page Fonts
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/accessibility-features-firefox-make-firefox-and-we#w_overriding-page-fonts
"
5. Fixed Font Size
CSS style sheets unfortunately give websites the power to disable a Web
browser's 'change font size' button and specify a fixed font size. About
95% of the time, this fixed size is tiny , reducing readability
significantly for most people over the age of 40.
Respect the user's preferences (...)
"
Top 10 Mistakes in Web Design, January 1, 2011
http://www.nngroup.com/articles/top-10-mistakes-web-design/
Gérard Talbot
--
Konqueror Implementation Report of CSS 2.1 test suite (RC6): 9418
testcases
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/Konqueror4Bugs/Konq-IR-CSS21TestSuite.html
54 Bugs in Konqueror 4.12.0
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/Konqueror4Bugs/
Contributions to the CSS 2.1 test suite
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/css21testsuite/
CSS 2.1 Test suite RC6, March 23rd 2011
http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/toc.html
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