pretty mailman listinfo pages?

Gérard Talbot browserbugs at
Mon Dec 23 16:02:51 UTC 2013

Le 2013-12-22 20:44, Ben Cooksley a écrit :
> On Dec 23, 2013 1:40 PM, "Scarlett Clark" 
> <scarlett at>
> wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 22, 2013 07:26:55 PM Felix Miata wrote:
>> > On 2013-12-22 07:41 (GMT-0700) Scarlett Clark composed:
>> > > Lydia Pintscher wrote:
>> > >> Scarlett Clark wrote:
>> > >> > I have time, however I do not have the rest of the thread, what
> did you
>> > >> > have in mind?
>> >
>> > The whole thread:
>> >

Hello all,

I posted a message in that /kde-www/2013-May/005373 thread: that's why I 
am responding in this thread.

>> >
>> > Note the OP cites two sites the OP thought were nice, but are rudely[1]
>> > styled via CSS text sizing that wholly disregards users' optimal size as
>> > reflected by their browsers' default text size settings.
>> >
>> > >> Great. I have forwarded the other messages to you.
>> > >
>> > > Definitely something I can do, I will start working on this first
> thing
>> > > tomorrow.
>> >
>> > Please do nothing, or at most, be conservative. It would be a shame to
> see
>> > more differ than what the one that differs from the other 11 of the
> first
>> > dozen on or become as
>> > rude[1] as most of the web is today.
>> >

What Felix qualifies as "rude" I would describe it as annoying and 
irritating: having to read a text that is too small for me is a pain. 
Most of the time, web authors have little or no idea what the impact of 
their font-size declarations are actually doing.

>> > There's a *lot* to be said for the friendly default mailman styling
> being
>> > kept constant across its many installations.
>> >
>> > [1]
>> I only want to help and I have no desire to upset anyone. I will not 
>> do
>> anything then.
>> Scarlett
> Hi Scarlett,
> Thanks for your interest. Please be aware that Fleix in no way 
> represents
> the KDE Community in general, and any work towards this goal of themed
> pages is much appreciated.

If font-size declarations do not promote user-friendliness and 
accessibility for people with lowered visions, ageing baby-boomers, then 
such themed pages should be improved accordingly.

I do not wish to discourage anyone from updating or modifying any 
webpages under the control of www-kde people.

> Please don't feel discouraged by his message. If you have any questions 
> on
> this feel free to contact me.
> @Felix: such aggressive tones towards new contributors is not 
> appreciated,
> please be aware that your views are in the minority. Please respect the
> code of conduct in all messages to this list.

Ben, regarding best and most accessible font-size declarations, *_Felix 
speaks for me_*. I may not agree with a few of his choices of 
epithetes/adjectives here and there, but Felix indisputably understands 
this font-size issue.

> Thanks,
> Ben Cooksley
> KDE Sysadmin

This is what I wrote in :

It is generally admitted and acknowledged that absolute pixel size for 
text is a bad idea. Best is to use 1em or 100% or medium which 
correspond to the users' preferred font size for body text.

line-height: 180% is okay although 150% is recommended.

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0, Success Criterion 1.4.8 Visual 
For the visual presentation of blocks of text, a mechanism is available 
to achieve the following: (Level AAA)
   Line spacing (leading) is at least space-and-a-half within paragraphs, 
and paragraph spacing is at least 1.5 times larger than the line 

More references (on top of already mentioned references by Felix)

Getting started with practical web accessibility, section 1 Twelve 
simple rules: Rule 10: Adjustable font size

1. Text font and size

This paragraph (and the heading and subheading above) is in your 
browser's default font (typeface) and default (base) text size. Web 
pages often try to override this size for their body text. The 
better-designed sites won't do this (...)
Accessible Web design: Setting up your browser

The Wrong Size Fonts
Or why not to over-ride the reader’s font size

Browsers allow the user to set a default font size which will be applied 
to any font that is not given an explicit size by the displayed page. It 
is easy for the user to change this size after a page is displayed. 

If you do not specify any font size at all (as on the pages you are 
reading), text will appear in the default size that was selected by the 
user. (...)

If you specify a font size using units of px, some browsers will not 
resize the text, even if the user changes the default size.  This may 
result in text which is too small for the user to read or (less likely) 
too large to fit in the width of the user's window. (...)

If you use 100% for most of your content, the user will be able to read 
it with ease, since the size matches the user's default.
Truth and Consequences of Web Design: Font size

The accepted norm by proponents of web accessibility is to set body text 
size at 100% (or 1em). This equates to the visitor's default text size, 
whatever that may be, and is known as relative sizing. It is A Good 
Sensible type sizing on the web by Bergamot

If you come across a site which ignores your browser settings, and as a 
result is awkward for you to read, I strongly recommend you complain to 
the owner/webmaster of the site.
Author: Stephen Poley

Accessibility features in Firefox - Make Firefox and web content work 
for all users Overriding Page Fonts
sites may rely on the browser's default fonts. You can set your default 
fonts by opening the Preferences window, selecting the Content panel, 
and selecting a default font and size in the Fonts & Colors section.
coming from
Accessibility features in Firefox - Make Firefox and web content work 
for all users
Overriding Page Fonts

5. Fixed Font Size

CSS style sheets unfortunately give websites the power to disable a Web 
browser's 'change font size' button and specify a fixed font size. About 
95% of the time, this fixed size is tiny , reducing readability 
significantly for most people over the age of 40.

Respect the user's preferences (...)
Top 10 Mistakes in Web Design, January 1, 2011

Gérard Talbot
Konqueror Implementation Report of CSS 2.1 test suite (RC6): 9418 
54 Bugs in Konqueror 4.12.0
Contributions to the CSS 2.1 test suite
CSS 2.1 Test suite RC6, March 23rd 2011

More information about the kde-www mailing list