discussion? where? well, not here...

Mat Colton mat.colton at web-xs.de
Sun Nov 24 23:49:26 UTC 2002

Navindra Umanee wrote:
> Mat Colton <mat.colton at web-xs.de> wrote:
> > Sad thing. Didn't know about that, thank you for pointing that
> > out. What were the reasons? What can we do to make sure this is
> > unlikely to happen again?  What has been done so far?
> >
> > I don't know anybody who goes to kde.org to get the current Appsy
> > items. You do that once, then you bookmark Appsy I would think,
> > maybe I'm wrong. But anyway, I find that very interesting
> > information, how do you know that it's one of the most appreciated
> > features of www.kde.org? Do you have overall link-off statistics?
> > That would be an interesting thing to know. I can imagine that it is
> > very interesting for a first time visitor of kde.org.
> This is twice you don't know.  So what was the point of going on the
> offensive like that?

Offensive? Where? I have stayed calm though you are not even trying to 
understand what I mean. More then that you try to ignore parts of sentences 
to make a sense to that fits your fears or whatever. All IMHO!
Take your last comment. I did nothing but ask if maybe my point of view on the 
user habits is wrong "...I would think, maybe I'm wrong" I wrote, then I go 
on "But anyway, I find that very interesting..." and ask "how do you know 
that it's one of the most appreciated features of www.kde.org?". Andreas gave 
me a mature and informative answer, you flame me, or at least I get that 

> Question all you want, certainly.  dot.kde.org has been down quite a
> bit too.  Even www.kde.org has been down in the past, as have been the
> various sites under kde.org.  It would be unrealistic to consider that
> a reason to throw them away. 

In my last post I asked what the problem was and how we can avoid it in the 
future. I left it at the beginning of the email so you can read up on it. :P 
More on mirrors later on.
Again you ripped it out of the context. Let me give you an example that I can 
do that as well:

> I only see your unrealistic
> approach adding further delays to a probably already doomed site
> redesign for KDE.

Well, that as a stand alone is arrogant and a flame IMHO. But in the context 
you actually wrote it made sense and was rather polite:

> I guess I don't know why you would like to hide a service that
> innumerable KDE users enjoy already.  I don't particularly have the
> energy to play the defensive but to me I only see your unrealistic
> approach adding further delays to a probably already doomed site
> redesign for KDE.  (I hope not though.  Prove me wrong, I would be
> happy.)

I can't change what you read out of my posts. But be assured, I love KDE, I 
highly appreciate the efforts everybody has put into every aspect of KDE.
I want kde.org to be the best it can be. This takes time and I got into this 
boat rather late. So I might raise questions never asked or asked earlier.

> > - So, you own apps.kde.com and it's your content?
> > - You can say exactly where Appsy is going in a commercial sense?
> > - When did you tell KDE crew about the subscription thing?
> > - Uploads by the author (or you as you do a lot of work) will always be
> > free? - The author may upload as many packages as he/she/it wishes?
> Where can I read about this subscription thing? 

Well, go to Appsy. The fees are moderate. I have explained more then once that 
it is not the service itself that upsets me.

> > That brings us back to consistent design... :P No really now, don't take
> > it off, put on a message or whatever. Is there no way to mirror Appsy?
> Well you can start by mirroring the simpler kde.org services, that
> might be easier.  Note, I don't mean hijack by forking and/or changing
> the link on kde.org to point to your website instead of the real one.

Errm, I am already hosting some KDE apps homepages mirrors on my companies 
server. The authors were asked if they want access to our server and got an 
account. They can do what ever they want to as long as it's not illegal. The 
most visited one is http://web-xs.de/~ecoquelle/karchiver/
Anyway, I can't afford to offer a mirror of kde.org. Sorry. But maybe some 
service homepage? The only thing I need to know is the estimated bandwidth 
usage/month and the other requirements so I have some idea of what it will 
cost me and what it takes. Here again I offer a ssh login on the server, but 
I will not set up the mirror itself, no time. So, which one would fit IYHO? 
Personally I would like to mirror usability.kde.org, but I'm open for 
anything that I can afford and that will work on the server. 

> However, I do again have to stress that I don't think it would be nice
> of you to forcefully change the design of these websites. 

Well, then don't do it! Why do you want to do so? No one is forcing you I 
would guess. 

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