Better default toolbar setting

[Stefan Monov]

On Sunday 10 September 2006 00:10, Iñaki wrote:
> El Sábado, 9 de Septiembre de 2006 19:18, Stefan Monov escribió:
> > > > I don't know, but couldn't be a solution if the future KDE guidelines
> > > > force the width of the icons in toolbars? In this way the developers
> > > > and translators will be forced to use short text.
> > > yes, the HIG almost certainly will have to do this.
> > Okay, then I withdraw my first claim - that the width wouldn't be
> > constant. 
> Why not? is it a Qt issue?
It's *not* an issue. The width *can* be made constant, and that's cool.
That's why I said "withdraw".

> Yes, but can be the icons enough descriptive?
That's what we're discussing currently.
;-)

> http://www.udel.edu/topics/e-mail/macosxmail/index.html
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagen:Mozilla_thunderbird_empty_screenshot.png
> Do you think these apps could look better without the icons text?
No.

> > > > Give an example of a KDE app that should show icons + text.
> > > Kontact for example. Some friends of mine use Kmail and they thing that
> > > it's difficult to recognize the "reply", "forward" and "receinve mail".
> > > Are the icon bad? I don't think so, I agree with your option number "1"
> > > below:
> > >
> > > "1. No matter how good our artists are, and no matter for how long and
> > > how hard they try, some icons just cannot *become* good enough to be
> > > useful in the absence of text."
> > Why should "forward" and "receive mail" (called "check mail in",
> > actually) be on the toolbar anyway?
> > - only secretaries forward often
> I don't think so.
Then the obvious question is, who else needs to?

> > - only people on very low bandwidth check mail in manually
> I don't think so. Me and people I meet check mail manually with band width.
> They receive it periodically, yes, but some times many users press
> in "Receive mail".
Why do they do it?

> > > Anyway, in case of the text "Shared files" is not self explanatory,
> > > after the user  visites that button he can remember the text "Shared
> > > files" easier than remember an icon.
> > Agreed, but the gain in easiness is less than the loss in
> > beauty.
> Agian look at this:
>   http://www.udel.edu/topics/e-mail/macosxmail/index.html
>
> The look problem of KDE is not because the text or not text in the icons,
> the problems are:
>
> - By default the KDE apps show TOO MUCH icons in the toolbar.
> - The text of the icons is TOO LONG (and worse in i18n).
> - KDE apps show all their power to the user in the gui, only a few KDE apps
> try to hide the advanced features just for advanced users.
However, even if there were few icons, and with short descriptions, the text 
makes it uglier.