Better default toolbar setting

[Iñaki]

El Sábado, 9 de Septiembre de 2006 19:18, Stefan Monov escribió:
> > > I don't know, but couldn't be a solution if the future KDE guidelines
> > > force the width of the icons in toolbars? In this way the developers
> > > and translators will be forced to use short text.
> >
> > yes, the HIG almost certainly will have to do this.
>
> Okay, then I widthdraw my first claim - that the width wouldn't be
> constant.

Why not? is it a Qt issue?


> That leaves the second - that toolbars look nicer without text. 

Yes, but can be the icons enough descriptive?

Anyway, look at this:
  http://www.udel.edu/topics/e-mail/macosxmail/index.html
  http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagen:Mozilla_thunderbird_empty_screenshot.png

Do you think these apps could look better without the icons text?


> > > Give an example of a KDE app that should show icons + text.
> >
> > Kontact for example. Some friends of mine use Kmail and they thing that
> > it's difficult to recognize the "reply", "forward" and "receinve mail".
> > Are the icon bad? I don't think so, I agree with your option number "1"
> > below:
> >
> > "1. No matter how good our artists are, and no matter for how long and
> > how hard they try, some icons just cannot *become* good enough to be
> > useful in the absence of text."
>
> Why should "forward" and "receive mail" (called "check mail in", actually)
> be on the toolbar anyway?
> - only secretaries forward often

I don't think so.


> - only people on very low bandwidth check mail in manually

I don't think so. Me and people I meet check mail manually with band width. 
They receive it periodically, yes, but some times many users press 
in "Receive mail".


> Both are minorities, and we don't put icons used only by minorities on the
> toolbar, right?

I think these buttons are not used by minorities.


> > > Who signifies "Shared Files" with the Earth in a box
> > > instead of a sheet of paper in a hand?
> >
> > Ok, it's a bad icon, but it has text so it's easy to understand.
>
> Exactly. If it was good, it wouldn't need text to be easy to understand.

Yes, but can really be all the icons enough descriptive?



> > Anyway, in case of the text "Shared files" is not self explanatory, after
> > the user  visites that button he can remember the text "Shared files"
> > easier than remember an icon.
>
> Agreed, but the gain in easiness is less than the loss in
> beauty.

Agian look at this:
  http://www.udel.edu/topics/e-mail/macosxmail/index.html

The look problem of KDE is not because the text or not text in the icons, the 
problems are:

- By default the KDE apps show TOO MUCH icons in the toolbar.
- The text of the icons is TOO LONG (and worse in i18n).
- KDE apps show all their power to the user in the gui, only a few KDE apps 
try to hide the advanced features just for advanced users.


> > Programmers are more advanced users and have no problem
> > to use an app with not very descritive icons or bad default settings.
>
> So the default settings of apps used only by programmers should be bad just
> because they have no problem with it?

No, hte settings shouldn't be bad. I only said that programs like Kdevelop 
could hide the text of the icons to allow more icons in the toolbar because 
the programmers are advanced users and don't need a text "Compile" in 
the "compile" icon of Kdevelop.


Regards.






-- 
Iñaki