A forward look at KDE4 (was: "A look at GNOME 2.14, comparison to KDE")

[Kurt Pfeifle]

On Tuesday 21 February 2006 19:48, Iñaki wrote:
> El Martes, 21 de Febrero de 2006 01:48, Kurt Pfeifle escribió:
> > > Things
> > > like "Fonts" and "Printers" configuration should be in KDE Control Center
> > > but not in a web/file browser.
> > > If there is people that find them useful in Konqueror is because they
> > > don't find them useful where the must be
> >
> > No, it is because they are (for me) faster accessed directly from
> > Konqueror (or side bar).
> 
> And if you put two extra-big icons in the desktop called "Fonts" and 
> "Printers" you could access them even faster,

No, because my Konqui is mostly maximized...

> but... is the desktop the best  
> place for them? 

No, it's not.

> do you really access to "Fonts" and "Printers" every day?

Yes, I do. Printers daily, fonts weekly. (And I am aware that my
use pattern is very much unlike that of most other users.)

> do   
> you really need them BY DEFAULT in the Konqueror sidebar?

No, that's why I use "F9" if I want the sidebar. By default, my
sidebar is invisible (unlike yours, because it seems to annoy
you so much).

> Note that Konqueror allows the advanced users to configure it as they want, 

Thanks, I noted that now.

> so  
> if you REALLY consider necessary "Fonts" and "Printers" tabs in sidebar you 
> could put them easily, but are they good by default?
> 
> This is the difference between KDE and Gnome, (or one of them).

I'm not opposed to change. Not even to radically changing the sidebar,
or even removing it completely. I could still manage, somehow, to get
my stuff done.

What I am doing is putting up some resistance to some "easy" ideas for
change, to see if they can proof themselves.

See -- you say the sidebar is cluttered, bloated. You want it "cleaner",
"leaner". Good.

But why then not remove it altogether? Why only remove 2 little items
out of 10 or more that are there? I do not see much qualitative 
difference in 8 or in 10 items in a sidebar *if* *you* *have* *a* 
*sidebar* *at* *all*.

Uhmmmm... and you *can* remove the sidebar altogether already, even by 
default, by hitting "F9" (I mean: by making the KDE install script 
hitting F9 for you). And *I* can bring it back for *myself* by hitting 
"F9" again. Case solved.

I'm not even sure what the current default sidebar setting shipped by 
KDE is. That default (as "shipped" by *KDE* is what is in the source 
code. And only users who compile their own (as well as Gentoo users... 
does Gentoo patch KDE somehow?) will ever see this default. _All_  
_other_  _users_ will see what their distro of choice built for them. 
And  _that_ can deviate very much from what KDE's default is.

See, this discussion started by pointing to a screenshot of KDE 3.4.
Made by someone. Hosted somewhere. Probably one that even came very 
close to what KDE-3.4 looked like by default. 

The discussion was very useful nevertheless. But please do not 
restrict yourself to arguments which you can derive from that one
specific, "old" screenshot!

KDE 3.5.x likely will not change very much. The goal to tackle lies
ahead with KDE 4.0  --  and this has *lots* of areas where KDE needs
polish, and the same "petty polish" as I called it above. 

But let's look at the bigger picture. 

Did you see what the newly hyped compiz + xgl & AIGX can do for us
in the future? Man, that's a *lot* of effects to play with...

And all these effects lend themselves very much to also get lost
in doing fun and eyecandy stuff with them for the sake of doing
fun and eyecandy stuff with them.

The danger is very big that during the first iterations of creating
software utilizing hardware GL acceleration, the result will be
similar to all the web pages of the early 90s (some have survived
to this day!) which had dozens of flashing icons, animated gives,
"marquee" text lines and blinking headlines.

The challenge 

Let's try to come up with useful applications of this technology
to the KDE4 desktop. Here you can apply the lessons you learned 
when observing and objecting to the current KDE's supposed "visual
clutter" *from* *the* *beginning* of KDE4 developement, and you
can help make our first release of the "next generation" of 
desktop GUI software that takes advantage off hardware accelerated 
graphic effects as much polished as possible (and avoid the "bevel"
and "blink" traps of the past).

So, how can these effects be used in a way that helps newbie and
grandma users to feel comfortable when sitting in front of a KDE
computer? How can they be directed so they guide users through their 
workflows? What are things to avoid at all costs? Can you think of 
any innovative GUI concepts and paradigms that could be created with
the help of these tools? At which places is it a good idea to use
animations at all? "Morphing" of a "simple" config dialog to a mode
which is meant for power users, and back? Showing tooltips and 
"WhatsThis" helps? Certain new "mouse over" effects that come to
mind? Completely new interface elements you could think of?

In a way we can start from scratch here. Wouldn't that be a much 
more productive and rewarding disussion to have?

Cheers,
Kurt