kde-quality Digest, Vol 14, Issue 17

[Lukillas]

Hello!
      I've just subscribed to this mailing list. I'm quite new on
Linux (I have the Mandrake distribution), but I'm very interested in
collaborating in anything I can. I first read some documents at your
website and I want to introduce myself first of all:
         My name is Lucas Pardo. I'm a Spanish 19 year-old computer
engeneering student studying at the Carlos III University at Madrid.
I've lived in several cities like Mons (Belgium), California (US),
Cadiz (Spain), etc... . As you can see, my english is not perfect, but
I hope you understand me.
         I have quite good knowledge on Java and I'm going to start
next week with C. I've done basic stuff with BASH (as part of my
lessons here, at my univeristy).
        I don't really know if I can do anything to help this project
keep going, but if you could help me guiding me to where I should
help.... . I'm really interested in Linux system (I even have some
small projects with friend from here to set up a small linux lab).
      Well, I don't know what to say ..... I think I'll wait for an
answer from you guys... ;)
       Thanks!

             Lukillas

PS: By the way, I've just installed KDevelop, ....


On 31 Mar 2005 10:01:23 -0000, kde-quality-request at kde.org
<kde-quality-request at kde.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box?? (Segedunum)
>    2. Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box?? (Nathan Olberding)
>    3. Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box?? (Aaron Seigo)
>    4. Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box?? (Aaron Seigo)
>    5. Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box?? (Brad Hards)
>    6. Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box?? (C.M.Lotion)
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:13:28 +0100
> From: Segedunum <segedunum at actuaria.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box??
> To: kde-quality at kde.org
> Message-ID: <200503301713.38283.segedunum at actuaria.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:46:30, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > well, yes. this is true of anything. try submitting a patch that makes an
> > application crash: it won't be accepted. (at least not purposefully =)
> 
> Well quite - I wasn't quite talking about that kind of patch.
> 
> > if the suggested solution is not realitically implementable or falls outside
> > of the scope of KDE's forward directions, it probably won't happen. if it
> > were otherwise, chaos would ensue.
> 
> There does seem to be people who want to defend certain things that don't seem
> to make an awful lot of sense at times. Maybe I'm being far too harsh there
> though (I'm thinking in terms of too large a set of steps, and changes) as
> this is a problem that is not peculiar to KDE, but any organisation really.
> 
> > i don't think it's a problem. i think it's a challenge. KDE has come a long,
> > long ways and this is the next frontier for us all. we are faced with these
> > questions because of success and because of years of positive, useful
> > efforts.
> 
> I can totally agree with that. The reason why people are talking about all
> this is because KDE has now become so successful it's getting over some
> growing pains.
> 
> > as a whole, KDE is too big and too diverse a community to ever come to a
> > single set of wants, i think.
> 
> Well no, but I think any project needs to pull in a 'general' direction. If it
> didn't you'd have total chaos. As time goes on, and as people look to do more
> with KDE in many different places that general direction will get
> progressively narrower. It will certainly happen if Linux desktop/KDE usage
> gets any larger because there will have to be certain things that can't be
> done. People are relying on the software after all, and there cannot really
> be an attitude of 'lumping it on to distributors' as there sometimes seems to
> be. That's the price of more success unfortunately.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:22:41 -0800
> From: Nathan Olberding <nathan.olberding at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box??
> To: "Contributors support and coordination,     to make KDE rock!"
>         <kde-quality at kde.org>
> Message-ID: <33a8506705033008225105b18b at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> This may be slightly off topic, but I think more people would be able
> to contribute patches and Show Us The Code if the application in
> question was written in a higher level language than C++. I can
> understand Python and, to a lesser extent, Ruby, and can easily tinker
> with programs written in those languages. I can get a good idea of
> what C++ code does, but I just don't have the time to 1) keep up with
> CVS, 2) dive in to C++ code, studying until I understand what's going
> on with it (even in a relatively simple chunk of code!), 3) edit,
> compile, test, edit, compile, etc.. And even then, that only proves it
> works on my machine. Then, other people who have the time to keep up
> with CVS have to test my patch.
> 
> If I were unemployed, this would be a lot easier. If an app I used
> were written in PyKDE, keeping up with / understanding / patching /
> testing code would be several orders of magnitude easier, and I'd have
> the ability to help. For that, it'd be a lot easier if PyKDE / SMOKE
> bindings / etc were in the main KDE source distro (which I hear
> they're going to be?).
> 
> I'm just saying, "show me the code" is a very true and realistic
> attitude, but currently, most people's answer is going to be "the code
> doesn't make sense to me", or "I'll do that next time I have an entire
> day of free time."
> 
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:46:30 -0700, "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo at kde.org> wrote:
> > On Tuesday 29 March 2005 12:59, Segedunum wrote:
> > > some usability thinking within KDE, that there are some things which are
> > > totally non-negotiable,
> >
> > well, yes. this is true of anything. try submitting a patch that makes an
> > application crash: it won't be accepted. (at least not purposefully =)
> >
> > if the suggested solution is not realitically implementable or falls outside
> >
> > of the scope of KDE's forward directions, it probably won't happen. if it
> > were otherwise, chaos would ensue.
> >
> > and this isn't an issue of elitism, either. not every idea i come up with
> > gets
> > implemented or considered, even if i have a patch. sometimes i have to work
> >
> > pretty hard to get a concept accepted. sometimes, by the time it is
> > accepted,
> > it's fallen off the radars of many people who originally wanted it due to
> > matters of attention spans. this ensures that no one person (or small group
> >
> > of people) derails the entire project by simply being able to ram through
> > any
> > and all ideas.
> >
> > > It hints at a far greater problem within KDE as a project.
> >
> > i don't think it's a problem. i think it's a challenge. KDE has come a long,
> >
> > long ways and this is the next frontier for us all. we are faced with these
> >
> > questions because of success and because of years of positive, useful
> > efforts.
> >
> > > What is it that KDE as a whole wants?
> >
> > as a whole, KDE is too big and too diverse a community to ever come to a
> > single set of wants, i think. but we can achieve specific visions within the
> >
> > project and carry those visions to the project in general.
> >
> > in the next 10-14 days there will be some announcements made that will be of
> >
> > interest in this regard.
> >
> > --
> > Aaron J. Seigo
> > GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43
> >
> >
> 
> --
> -NKO-
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:43:35 -0700
> From: Aaron Seigo <aseigo at kde.org>
> Subject: Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box??
> To: kde-quality at kde.org
> Message-ID: <200503301043.35234.aseigo at kde.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> On March 30, 2005 9:22, Nathan Olberding wrote:
> > This may be slightly off topic, but I think more people would be able
> > to contribute patches and Show Us The Code if the application in
> > question was written in a higher level language than C++.
> 
> yes, higher level language use in applications is going to become increasingly
> important across the board for this and other reasons.
> 
> > 1) keep up with CVS,
> 
> generally you don't have to unless you are working on a core component.
> 
> > 2) dive in to C++ code, studying until I understand what's going
> > on with it (even in a relatively simple chunk of code!),
> 
> this can be true of any app in any language, unfortunately =(
> 
> > 3) edit,
> > compile, test, edit, compile, etc.. And even then, that only proves it
> > works on my machine.
> 
> which is all you need to prove, really ... while carelessly non-portable code
> is frowned upon, you don't need to prove it works everywhere ...
> 
> > Then, other people who have the time to keep up
> > with CVS have to test my patch.
> 
> this is also true with any language, really.
> 
> > If I were unemployed, this would be a lot easier.
> 
> heh.. just everything else in life would be harder ;)
> 
> > If an app I used
> > were written in PyKDE, keeping up with / understanding / patching /
> > testing code would be several orders of magnitude easier, and I'd have
> > the ability to help. For that, it'd be a lot easier if PyKDE / SMOKE
> > bindings / etc were in the main KDE source distro (which I hear
> > they're going to be?).
> 
> it's a goal some of us have for KDE4. no hard decisions or plans at this
> point, however.
> 
> > I'm just saying, "show me the code" is a very true and realistic
> > attitude, but currently, most people's answer is going to be "the code
> > doesn't make sense to me", or "I'll do that next time I have an entire
> > day of free time."
> 
> even if we do go with Python or Ruby more in the future, i don't think the "10
> minute contributor" will ever become much of a reality, really.
> 
> there are also many other ways one can help contribute towards KDE
> development. providing code is the most direct way, but there are others. and
> here, as with coding, clarity in direction and adhering to that direction as
> a contributor affects the smoothness of that process
> 
> --
> Aaron J. Seigo
> Society is Geometric
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:49:53 -0700
> From: Aaron Seigo <aseigo at kde.org>
> Subject: Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box??
> To: kde-quality at kde.org
> Message-ID: <200503301049.54064.aseigo at kde.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On March 30, 2005 9:13, Segedunum wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:46:30, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > well, yes. this is true of anything. try submitting a patch that makes an
> > > application crash: it won't be accepted. (at least not purposefully =)
> >
> > Well quite - I wasn't quite talking about that kind of patch.
> 
> right, this is a clear case of a "bad idea" patch.
> 
> often it's a less clear line. sometimes people submit patches that they truly
> feel are good ideas but others, who may well be the maintainer of the
> software, disagree. software development can be collaberative and successful,
> but it can rarely be democratic and be successful.
> 
> > There does seem to be people who want to defend certain things that don't
> > seem to make an awful lot of sense at times.
> 
> i feel the same way. but it's a local inneficiency that results from a process
> (open source software development) that offers global efficiency for the
> project.
> 
> > Maybe I'm being far too harsh
> > there though (I'm thinking in terms of too large a set of steps, and
> > changes) as this is a problem that is not peculiar to KDE, but any
> > organisation really.
> 
> depends what those large sets of steps are. do you have something particular
> in mind?
> 
> > progressively narrower. It will certainly happen if Linux desktop/KDE usage
> > gets any larger because there will have to be certain things that can't be
> > done. People are relying on the software after all, and there cannot really
> > be an attitude of 'lumping it on to distributors' as there sometimes seems
> > to be. That's the price of more success unfortunately.
> 
> i agree.
> 
> --
> Aaron J. Seigo
> Society is Geometric
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 06:48:23 +1000
> From: Brad Hards <bradh at frogmouth.net>
> Subject: Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box??
> To: kde-quality at kde.org, Nathan Olberding <nathan.olberding at gmail.com>
> Message-ID: <200503310648.32423.bradh at frogmouth.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 02:22 am, Nathan Olberding wrote:
> > This may be slightly off topic, but I think more people would be able
> > to contribute patches and Show Us The Code if the application in
> > question was written in a higher level language than C++. I can
> > understand Python and, to a lesser extent, Ruby, and can easily tinker
> > with programs written in those languages. I can get a good idea of
> > what C++ code does, but I just don't have the time to 1) keep up with
> > CVS, 2) dive in to C++ code, studying until I understand what's going
> > on with it (even in a relatively simple chunk of code!),
> One of the things that can really help here is plugins. Because plugins are
> mostly pretty small and self-contained,  they can provide additional
> functionality without needing to understand a huge amount of code. We need
> better docs on writing different kinds, but it really is a good way to get
> started.
> 
> Brad
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 02:36:19 -0500
> From: "C.M.Lotion" <cmlotion at wanadoo.nl>
> Subject: Re: Needed?? The Suggestion Box??
> To: "Contributors support and coordination,     to make KDE rock!"
>         <kde-quality at kde.org>
> Message-ID: <200503310236.23215.cmlotion at wanadoo.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> > > What is it that KDE as a whole wants?
> >
> > as a whole, KDE is too big and too diverse a community to ever come to a
> > single set of wants, i think. but we can achieve specific visions within
> > the project and carry those visions to the project in general.
> >
> What about creating the best integrated desktop there is ;) for developers
> (great framework), for users (basic tools for office/personal productivity)
> and power users (highly configurable and customizable) that also form a great
> supporting community. Actually, that is what I love about KDE: there is
> something for everybody, because every kde supporter has his/her own way in
> which he/she thinks it can be improved. Oh, and did I mention that it's got a
> great open and diverse community, is open source and runs on high quality
> OSes? I also read something like that on kde.org :), and I think that this
> vision is what connects all the KDE communities and subprojects.
> (Unfortunately, the common goal tends to be forgotten by many a KDE
> enthusiast in the heat of the moment, which usually ends up in users getting
> frustrated about developers.)
> 
> > in the next 10-14 days there will be some announcements made that will be
> > of interest in this regard.
> Very interesting and I'm looking forward to this. I definitely hope it
> involves a plan to help the KDE communities collaborating more efficiently
> and tune up the image that many a user appears to have of developers, since
> in the end, one can't do without the other :).
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Claire
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> ------------------------------
> 
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> End of kde-quality Digest, Vol 14, Issue 17
> *******************************************
> 


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