[KDE/Mac] Question to experienced Mac devs about goal of Windows/Mac frameworks

Jaroslaw Staniek staniek at kde.org
Wed Oct 21 09:30:46 UTC 2015

On 21 October 2015 at 10:20, René J.V. <rjvbertin at gmail.com> wrote:

> T,FTFY :)
> Seriously, how many people on here are Mac developers with significant
> experience targeting native OS X APIs, and how many have significant
> experience using Macs as Unix-based workstations with a true, integrated
> desktop? Think of significant as "going back to before the last few, free
> iterations of the OS".
> I wouldn't even call myself the former (I just have a working experience
> with the native APIs) but I'm very much the latter.
> All contributions are welcome esp. on platforms where there is very little
> support, but IMVHO, people not in either category shouldn't be making
> official design decisions for the platform in question (and that applies
> not just to Mac / Mac OS X).

​I don't think separating community this way is acceptable. Or categorising
people. There are smart people that can have multiple hats.
Even for example, less advanced OS X users have right to demand native UI
styling on the target OS. You're proposing to use one of the Linux styles
which is clearly foreign look.

> I'd advise very strongly to get, install a number of commercial big
> software suites (MS Office, Adobe Creative, etc) and study how they are
> installed and where they put things. Both
> ​​
> examples exist on multiple platforms, and MS Office is actually very well
> written for OS X.
> As to DBus: it's not just a piece of foreign software that happens to work
> on OS X, but is actively developed for that OS. There is nothing "anti-mac"
> in using it.
​dbus is foreign in most places. Even to KDE contributors it is a bit
foreign; we enjoyed other working solution for ages. It wouldn't be even
used if not Qt's support coming mostly for free.

​A couple of open questions:​

- Looking at competition is always good. Do these MS Office/Adobe apps use
dbus? Or run services ported from Windows? That would be equivalent. Note,
even MS isn't interested in dragging own OS' infra to the foreign OS
(Windows -> OS X, recently Android), it is mostly using the infra available
on the target OS (OS X, Android, respectively).

- What do we miss on OS X without dbus? Except a risk for further bugs?
Is OS X dysfunctional in the area of IPC until dbus got ported to OS X?
I am also asking as former guy who worked on Windows port of dbus.
If I want to talk to system services can I use dbus on OS X? No. I will
have to use another IPC approach. Unnecessary complication.

- "both ​examples exist on multiple platforms" - from what I observe over
the years at least MS Office has largely separate teams for OS X with
significantly separate code base and features (no scripting for example, no
MS Access at all) and entirely separate GUI, which on OS X uses native APIs
when possible or at least mimicks ones. If MS used, say, .NET solutions to
IPC then, yet, that would be a point in favour of your idea.

The approach to multiplatform development that drags infrastructure from
the original OS is the one I do not accept.

regards, Jaroslaw Staniek

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