liquidshell in kdereview

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Sat, 02 Dec 2017 10:27:16 +0100
Albert Astals Cid <aacid at kde.org> wrote:

> El divendres, 1 de desembre de 2017, a les 14:05:19 CET, Sebastian
> Kügler va escriure:
> > On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 18:41:28 +0100
> > 
> > Martin Koller <kollix at aon.at> wrote:
> > > On Donnerstag, 30. November 2017 10:04:51 CET Sebastian Kügler
> > > wrote:
> > > > On woensdag 29 november 2017 21:23:15 CET Martin Koller wrote:
> > > > > On Freitag, 3. November 2017 21:30:19 CET Martin Koller wrote:
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I'd like to announce an application I've implemented over
> > > > > > the last few weeks - liquidshell
> > > > > 
> > > > > since more than 3 weeks have passed, I hopefully have
> > > > > addressed all issues and I got no further comments, are there
> > > > > any blocking points you see or can I proceed requesting the
> > > > > move to extragear ?
> > > > > 
> > > > > A note regarding the comment to not use the start-here-kde
> > > > > logo: I got in contact with the visual design group and got
> > > > > the information to stay with this logo.
> > > > 
> > > > I strongly disagree. Could you point me to the discussion?
> > > 
> > > it was mail exchange in private (german) mails with the
> > > breeze/oxygen-icons maintainer "kainz.a" <kainz.a at gmail.com>
> > 
> > In any case, this is not just a visual design question, it's a
> > branding and marketing question just as much, and a general
> > communication and positioning question as well.
> 
> Yes, the logo has to be changed.
> 
> > 
> > I'm vetoing any move to released software at the very least until
> > the logo has changed. I also don't think that a technical review of
> > the code is enough to warrant us to ship liquidshell as a finished
> > product, for the reasons that Martin Flöser pointed out. It would
> > harm KDE as a whole and Plasma specifically (ironically, the
> > product that you use most parts from).
> 
> This is an interesting position, are we supposed to subordinate
> technical decisions to marketing now? 

We are doing a review not just based on the code, but based on "is this
suitable and a good idea for KDE to release in this way". It's not
purely marketing, but general communication.

If I wrote a very simple application that just poppped up a Window that
said "Krita is crap", the code could technically be totally fine, but
it may still not be a good idea to do it. If Martin wants to release
this under the KDE umbrella, we should make sure we're not actively
harming other people working inside KDE.

> Also are you even sure we get better marketing by not allowing
> liquidshell to be a KDE thing?
> 
> I can very well see headlines like "Plasma developers force other KDE 
> developers outside of KDE".
> 
> I would like to empathize that we are at our core Innovation.
> 
> And yes, I agree that doing a desktop shell in QWidgets doesn't seem
> like Innovation to me, but Innovation is the process of having new
> ideas and products.

Absolutely, but it should also be advertised in a healthy way, and
liquidshell in its current form isn't.

> Maybe this one has great "external" success and against your and my
> prediction gives KDE 1000 new developers that besides contributing to
> it also end up contributing to other parts of our software range.
> 
> Let's try to think positive :)

That's the point Martin Flöser already made: liquidshell should be
advertised based on its merits, not based on "plasmashell is shit,
here's something better (I think)"

Cheers,

-- sebas