KSplash/ML donation?

Ralf Nolden nolden at kde.org
Sat Mar 8 18:18:50 GMT 2003

Hash: SHA1

On Samstag, 8. März 2003 18:44, Mosfet wrote:
> Okay, my last email was pretty harsh too ;-)

Ok thank you :-) I was quite shocked when I read that one and thought OMG what 
did I do to him ? :-)

BTW I've packaged up liquid for my woody packages too. I didn't mean to say 
that the style is not original or anything else, I was only referring to the 
times when we were discussing the inclusion of it. So nothing personal.

> The problem as I am seeing it is the only responses I got were 2 negative
> ones that were pretty insulting from core developers. I'm not encouraged by
> this and if this is the attitude people are going to have when I try to do
> something in coordination with them it's obviously not going to work.
I'm sorry. I think nobody needs to go to Canossa here because we all have our 
faults and do mistakes and I certainly think that your input in whichever way 
is invaluable to the project.

> I've discussed the theme manager idea to some extent on kde-usability. My
> basic approach was that it is never used because it doesn't handle C++
> window manager and widget styles, and that the configuration for included
> items doesn't exist. Splash screens are another example of missing parts.
> All these need to be integrated, (in the case of C++ styles the RPM or
> tarball would install their own themerc files). As far as configuration
> goes it needs to provide easy access to the KControl modules used to
> further configure items included in the theme. This is quite different from
> my theme designer.
Hm, yes. The thing that we are discussing is just the theme manager but of 
course, the theme designer is the next logical step. Otherwise we'll never 
end up with correct, neatly integrated themes. Regarding styles, I think one 
thing that a theme designer *could* do is just save a list of preferred 
stlyes that match the creator's taste what he thinks matches best to the 
theme. If that theme isn't installed, fall back to another theme and if 
that's not there, a third one as a maximum that a designer could name in the 
theme rc file. If neither is available, don't change it and stick with the 
current one.

The issue with the control modules is more or less that what I mentioned - 
kpersonalizer does already do a good job but it was a PITA to sort out 
everything and to write settings into rc files where I cannot always be sure 
that module xyz didn't change the format and storage location. So that's why 
I think that the dcop functions of the according desktop parts should handle 
setting a theme (most of them do support that already or we just restart a 
certain part like kicker) but most importantly support writing a style after 
checking that it can be applied (i.e. for instance, a style is installed -> 
switch to the style -> success -> save setting automatically). That's what's 
missing in the infrastructure in the first place to make applying themes as 
fool-proof as possible. What do you think ? 
> As for CVS accounts, I never asked for one. My plan was to do it myself and
> submit it for comments and possible inclusion in CVS.
Well, would you take a lead with other volunteers then and start e.g. at the 
dcop functions and sorting that out ? I think that'd be a good start for all 
of us to work together again. Wether you would like to have a CVS account or 
not is surely up to you but as I said, if you'd like to directly be more 
involved to avoid lag times before your stuff is commited by someone else, 
having a CVS account is probably more practical to work together.


> On Saturday 08 March 2003 11:29 am, Ralf Nolden wrote:
> > On Samstag, 8. März 2003 15:20, Mosfet wrote:
> > > Not sure exactly how you expect me to reply to this email...
> >
> > I'm sorry if that has been a bit too harsh, it certainly wasn't meant to
> > be preventing anything. You just have to see that we all had this
> > unpleasent experience with KDE and you for the KDE 2.2 release IIRC when
> > you left the project because of those issues that I noted. And you had a
> > brand new ooh theme manager that was already working and we never saw
> > even one line of code.
> >
> > That resulted in that it prevented people from writing one because they
> > thought you'd do that. We ended up in the situation where we are now.
> > Still noone cared about it but the subject comes up again.
> >
> > If you want to be part of the community you're very welcome. Everyone is
> > delighted by your ideas that you share and your commitment to KDE that
> > never changed despite of you leaving the project and we're thankful for
> > that IMHO. So, if you want to get your CVS account back I'd be more than
> > willing to support that.
> >
> > We just have to work out *real* plans that result in *real* code which
> > can be included in the 3.2 release. That's the only thing I'm concerned
> > about. Nothing more. Please go ahead if you want to come in again, like I
> > said, I'd be more than willing to support you getting your CVS account
> > back, but we should be aware on both sides that when you left it was for
> > reasons. I don't want such a situation to come up again under any
> > circumstances as it will give us the same bad press if that will happen.
> >
> > If we can agree on real work like we used to do in the early days and
> > really do the job, fine.  If you don't think you've got the time or the
> > energy to write a thememanager that is complete, then you could also
> > serve as a coordinator that just directs people on how to do it the way
> > you think it should be done, that's also fine.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ralf
> >
> > > On Saturday 08 March 2003 2:21 am, Ralf Nolden wrote:
> > > ...snip...
> > >
> > > > Hi Mosfet et alii,
> > > >
> > > > didn't receive anything yet - did that go under somewhere ? Mosfet, I
> > > > remember that you were working on a thememanager ever since, but one
> > > > thing that noone ever saw was some working code and design guidelines
> > > >
> > > > :-) I wouldn't have a problem if you'd pick up your work at KDE again
> > > >
> > > > and take this thing into your hands with the promise that we don't
> > > > possibly run into legal issues with mimicing user interfaces and that
> > > > we aren't forced to decide about adding untested code too shortly
> > > > before a release
> > > >
> > > > :-)
> > > >
> > > > Ralf
> > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Fredrik

- -- 
We're not a company, we just produce better code at less costs.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralf Nolden
nolden at kde.org

The K Desktop Environment       The KDevelop Project
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