kde 3.1 -- make Keramik default?
lucy-ples at mtu-net.ru
Thu Jun 13 08:09:40 BST 2002
On Wednesday 12 June 2002 1:21 am, Fredrik Höglund wrote:
| On Sunday 09 June 2002 09:27, Vadim Plessky wrote:
| > On Saturday 01 June 2002 9:40 pm, Torsten Rahn wrote:
| > |
| > | http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?file=1961-3.png
| > I do not think that this screenshot looks good.
| > A whole screen looks flashy (which is not bad) and inconsistent (which
| > is bad).
| > On top of it, fonts are not anti-aliased on that screenshot which really
| > takes you back by year or 2 years from now. Even Mozilla supports AA in
| > custom builds nowdays!
| I hardly think the point of this screenshot is showing what KDE looks
| like with anti-aliased fonts, but rather showing the combined effect
| of the color scheme, the widget style, the window decoration, and the
| icon set, as compared to the screenshot where the style is used
| with the default icon set and color scheme.
I agree with you. And can repeat once more: badly looking fonts affect KDE as
a whole ennvironment.
As about "default icon set and color scheme" - Keramik should exactly
*RESPECT* color scheme.
If you want some color schemes for testing - take any of my KDE mini-Themes
which is in fact *color scheems* packed into KDE Theme format, with screenshot
& other nice things.
I like Keramik a lot. And I like my color schemes. So, it would be cool to use
them together. But Keramik should get rid of coloured pixmaps first.
(I run Blue Fantasy on my desktop at a moment, and it really loooks cool with
KDE2 HiColor Window Decorations; I just disabled stipple effect to make it
| > Crystal Icon theme takes you back, too.
| > Ok, I have nothing against Folder icon, this one is very good.
| > But the rest of icon sets lacks "contouring" line around icon (in
| > contrast color), so icon loses border. Effect from this is very bad.
| > Now about Keramik Window Decorations itself.
| > 1) how can I switch Rounded corners off?
| > I don't like those rounded corners for several reasons.
| The rounded corners is sort of the whole point of this window
| decoration, there's no way to turn them off, nor will there ever
| be an option to do that. If you don't like shaped windows you
| shouldn't be using this deco.
I really sorry to hear this.
I frequently do screenshots of different windows, and rounded corners do no
tlook good on those screenshots 9they bacame *black* when you capture window)
Besides, I do not think that spending extra CPU cycles worth rounded corners.
At least people with slow CPUs or not most-modern video cards should have
possibility to swicth them off.
| > 2) colors, and *style* for Maximize/Restore, and even for Close and
| > Minimize, look terrible. They should not be of Black color, and Pixmaps
| > for them should be configurable
| If they shouldn't be black, what color would you suggest? The idea
Button Background/Foreground from default Color Scheme.
| is that they will be either black or white depending on the brightness
| of the button color in the color scheme. With the current color
| they're obviously too bright for the symbols to be white. As for the
| symbols themselves, they're designed to match the style of the
| symbols used in the widget style, and they were designed by
| the same artist.
Ok, than it's better to make symbols configurable.
What about to have an option to replace pixmaps (which AFAIK grayscale
pixmaps) with some other from the disk/theme?
| > // BTW: what about using SVG for those buttons, instead of pixmaps? With
| > recent SVG support in KDE this sounds quite reasonable.
| As I'm sure you're aware, the decision has been made to use hand
| painted pixmaps for icons smaller than 22x22 pixels, because SVG
| icons simply won't look acceptable at those sizes. The titlebar
| buttons are 17x17 pixels (that's 16x16 plus an additional row and
| column for the shadow).
Titel bar buttons have size which you define for them.
I was doing KDE2 themes (for siome reasons, KDE3 is not compatible in theme
format with it?) and many titel bar buttons hadve 22x22 size in my themes.
| Furthermore the buttons are not intended to be scalable, so what
| exactly would the advantage be of using SVG here? It would degrade
1) color match (color scheme)?
2) have you thought aboyt screens with >100dpi resolution, say, 150dpi or
Do you know how many troubles hard-coded pixmaps create for those
| image quality and slow down initialization time (since it would
| take quite a while to render the images) while offering no
| advantage whatsoever.
There is possibility to cache.
| > 3) it's realy bad UI design - when you combine both Round (circle) and
| > Rectangle buttons in *one* themes
| The descision made by qwertz was to make the most important
| buttons square, and the less important ones round.
Again: doesn't sound wise to me.
If this design was intentional than it's mistake.
| > On top of it, KDE2 default Window Decoration has these options:
| > 4) draw grab bar below windows
| > 5) draw titlebar stipple effect
| > which make it superior to many other styles.
| > Until you can control "grab bar" and add/remove stipple effects (or
| > gradients) in Keramik - it should not go as default KDE 3.1 theme.
| Havoc Pennington recently wrote an article on his website
| (http://www106.pair.com/rhp/free-software-ui.html) that you
| might want to read, that deals with the subject of configurability
| versus usability. That article has been discussed quite extensively
| on this mailing list, and the views that are expressed there have
| been confirmed by usability studies conducted by Eazel and
| Sun Microsystems. I've tried to adhear to the findings of those
| studies when designing the configuration tab for this deco.
I have to admit that I haven't read that article. I will look at it later.
BTW: Eazel and especially Sun are not good example to quote about "usability".
Eazel was bankrupted (nice example, ehh?..), Sun has a lot of troubles nowdays
and its focus primary on server market.
So, I see no pionjt quoting those 2 companies.
As about Havoc Pennington - if I wanted to use GNOME, I could use it.
My choice is KDE, and it's done. Thanks!
| Those ideas are being adopted in quite a few places in KDE.
| You might want to take a look at the HEAD version of the
| config dialog for kicker, and compare that to the one in
| the release version of KDE 3.0.
| > oh, and the most important priblem:
| > WHY KERAMIK DOESN'T RESPECT KDE COLOR THEMES?
| That question was answered by me almost two weeks ago on this
| mailing list, see
| In the meantime there's patch created by Rik Hemsley that you
| can try that enables the experimental recoloring code in CVS,
| see http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=102295981016327&w=2
| Unfortunatly it's a common misconception these days that when
| something has committed to CVS, it has also been released to the
| public. I can assure you that that is not the case. Neither the
| widget style nor the window deco have been released yet, not even
| as alpha versions. It is not a requirment that work is finished by
| the time it's committed to CVS. Only that is finished at release
| That someone chooses to check unreleased code out of CVS, package
| it and upload it to kde-look doesn't change that fact.
| If you choose to use the HEAD version of KDE or anything else
| that's being developed under CVS, you cannot expect all features
| to be implemented, nor that the code is free of bugs.
Yes, right, I see your point and agree.
Just wanted to make some comments to bes ure that Keramik is usable when
| > I have tried several ones, and even KDE's default (rather dark blue)
| > color is not respected, not speaking about other nice color themes I
| > have here.
| The style does not attempt to mimic the default color scheme.
| That is quite intentional, and as it's pointed out in the email
| you're replying to, the style doesn't look all that good with
| the current default color scheme.
So, what about trying with my color themes?
I amaware that KDE's default color schems are not very good.
That's why I developed my ones.
My mini-Themes/Color Schemes were extensively tested with different KDE styles
(works fine with Quartz, for example, in addition to KStep and KLaptop and
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
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