KDE Jabber Library

Martijn Klingens klingens at kde.org
Sun Aug 4 14:34:07 BST 2002

On Sunday 04 August 2002 15:02, Dominique Devriese wrote:
> > It's not. If Psi is a sole transport library it would be, but then Psi as
> > library is incomplete. You need a GUI to add a contact to your contact
> > list, remove it, edit it and select it. You need backend code to store
> > the contact in the KDE address book and fetch it again.
> I see what you mean...  How would the kopete lib solve this ?

By providing a centralized GUI, middleware and backend for this. The code is 
in one place and appications can use the relevant parts from Kopete instead 
of having to copy-paste it instead.

Without knowing what other apps actually require this may mean we need to make 
change to the Kopete API to make it actually work, but at least you have only 
one place where it's all combined, and not distributed over KDE's generic IM 
framework (Kopete) and KDE's single-solution IM framework (Psi).

> > DCOP or another way of IPC. At least a daemon-like process (with or
> > without GUI in e.g. the system tray) looks like a requirement here.
> And you're suggesting this daemon-like process would be kopete ?

Not necessarily. Of course I would like that, but I'm not going to dismiss 
alternatives without knowing them. I'm not dismissing Psi because it's not 
Kopete either, I just don't want a single-protocol lock-in.

> > If you're forced to use something you're not "convinced" but rather
> > "required to".
> Of course.  I don't know how well you know the KGame framework, but it
> also requires you to use a certain messageserver at the moment.  It is
> made transparent however by having it start in the background without
> the user seeing it..  Maybe the same could be done with a jabber
> server ?  Maybe KGame could be ported to use jabber ?

Then better port it to use IM instead, because for the code it doesn't make 
that much of a difference, and it doesn't force a Jabber account down a 
user's throat if the user and his fellow-players all have another common 
protocol to use.

Oh, and I don't know the KGame framework at all, so maybe you need to explain 
some relevant parts.

> > With the proper code in Kopete that could be handled there as
> > well. I've been
> > thinking a little about that and there are a number of ways to solve
> > it more
> > generic, so it also works over other backends than Jabber. It's not
> > quite a
> > priority for me as long as the API is still under heavy development,
> > but
> > after that it would be a nice next step.
> Jabber has the advantage here that the functionality is already
> there...

How and what exactly?

Also, this argument is far less important than the other arguments for me. 
Having duplicate code, having to have to have a Jabber account and not having 
the choice for an alternative backend are the reasons for me to vote Kopete 
over Jabber-only. Even if Jabber is better in this respect.

> > If Kopete is part of KDE then KDE supports it through Kopete. We
> > support HTTP
> > through KIO instead of a libkhttp as well.
> of course, but by supporting i meant preferring it above other im
> systems...

Preferring != making other protocols impossible to use as alternative.

> As i see it, you're just using IM to do communication between
> different KDE desktops.  There's nothing that a different desktop
> could do with the invitation.

No, you're using IM for communication between people that happen to all use 
KDE as desktop. And they may happen to also have other IM accounts that can 
be used, so requiring them to have a Jabber account is a bit rude. It's 
exactly the thing MS is also doing with remote assistance requiring an MSN 
account, and not supporting other protocols.

> Furthermore, I don't think it would be
> so easy for gnome games to support games using the KGame stuff...

If KGame has a well-documented and open wire-protocol it should be possible to 
have Gnome or Windows clients for your games. Atlantik was designed with the 
idea of having the wire-protocol independent of the used desktop deep in its 
very design. Atlantik is not using KGame though, because it's older than 
KGame itself.

> > We could also skip tcp/ip and send
> > out our own protocols. Sometimes it's better to stick with what's
> > out there,
> jabber _is_ "out there".

Yes. IPX and NetBEUI are too. But not many people use it. ICQ, AIM and MSN 
however have millions of people using it. Neglecting all those people is a 
very arrogant stance to take.

> > and not just a single non-generic solution.
> you mean something like DCOP, KParts etc. ?

I would love to see KParts-to-Bonobo and DCOP-to-XPCOM/Corba bridges, to be 
honest. And we already have KXParts.


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