Inactive mailing lists

Jeremy Whiting jeremypwhiting at gmail.com
Fri Apr 28 14:38:33 BST 2023 

kde-speech can definitely be closed. Kde-speech is no longer a thing. We
use QtSpeech upstream now for all speech needs.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:31 AM Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss <joseph at kde.org>
wrote:

> Hi Ben, thank you as well as Nico for the information, it is very helpful!
>
> If I understood correctly, there are at least these 3 categories for the
> mailing lists:
>
>   1. bug reports lists
>   2. commit filter lists
>   3. discussion lists
>
> Perhaps a description of the different types of lists can be added to
> https://mail.kde.org/? And a description tag can be added to the lists
> at https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo? Something like:
>
>   - Kdepim-bugs: "[bug-reports] KDE PIM bug list"
>   - Kexi-devel: "[commit-filter] For developers' discussion about KEXI"
>   - GCompris-devel: "[discussion] GCompris developers list"
>
> And for lists that mix the above:
>   - kde-multimedia: "[discussion, bug-reports] For discussion of
> multimedia (sound/video) issues under KDE"
>
> I don't think these differences are immediately clear and perhaps
> information about the different functions of the lists plus tags in the
> list descriptions will help new KDE contributors find the right channels
> for communication. (I will send a future mail about directing
> contributors to the different channels of communication.)
>
> BTW the information you sent applies to many of the other 130 mailing
> lists. However, in response to your three points below, I will focus on
> the 51 mailing lists that seemed inactive in order keep the discussion
> contained. These lists are arguably lower-hanging fruit to make
> decisions about.
>
> On 4/28/23 11:59, Ben Cooksley wrote:
> > HI Joseph,
> >
> > Couple of things to note here:
> >
> > 1) Some of these mailing lists deliberately have archiving disabled, so
> > Mailman's archives cannot be relied on to determine if a list is still
> > active or not. This is particularly the case for *-bugs mailing lists. I
> > should note though that there is alternative functionality within
> Bugzilla
> > that can replicate this functionality, so a mailing list does not have to
> > be used here (although some may prefer this for their email filters)
>
> I see no reason to close *-bugs lists if they are being used. However,
> if the functionality is offered somewhere else AND the lists are not
> being used, I think it makes sense to close them down. Not sure how to
> determine that, though. Any suggestions?
>
> Regarding disabled archives, that means these 3 *-bugs mailing lists
> likely have archives disabled:
>   * Cantor-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/cantor-bugs
>   * kde-games-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-bugs
>   * neon-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/neon-bugs
>
> And this one either turned off archives in 2008 or is inactive:
>   * kdelibs-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdelibs-bugs
>
> > 2) Some of these lists are certainly defunct (kde-dashboard for one) and
> > can definitely be closed down
>
> Should there be outreach to the moderator of a list before determining
> it is defunct? How does one contact the moderator (other than by posting
> to the list directly)? Some lists may have low activity but still be
> active and worth keeping open.
>
> Re what Johnny wrote: I agree, defunct lists should be archived. Do we
> have a preferred way to do that? There is at least precedent from
> KWrite-devel to use "Mailing list ARChives" (https://marc.info/).
>
> > 3) Some of the lists are commit filter lists which are no longer
> operating
> > (khtml-cvs for one) and should be archived.
>
> I am not exactly sure what a commit filter list is, but I can guess and
> it seemed there were several. I assume these fall into that category:
>
>   * Kde-buildsystem: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-buildsystem
>   * Marble-commits: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/marble-commits
>   * Ksecretservice-devel:
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/ksecretservice-devel
>   * Kde-speech: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-speech
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kexi-devel
>   * Kexi-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kexi-devel
>
> And perhaps this (although it seems there is a mix of automated and
> discussion posts):
>
>   * kopete-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kopete-devel
>
> The 4 *-bugs lists plus the 5 lists above plus khtml-cvs = 10 mailing
> lists. The question remains: of the 41 remaining mailing lists how to
> decide which are defunct and what to do with them?
>
> Not trying to make more work for you or anyone else, but I think closing
> down inactive channels could be a (small) step in the direction of
> strengthening internal communication.
>
> Don't hesitate to let me know what I can do to help with this.
>
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> > Cheers,
> > Ben
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 9:52 AM Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss <
> joseph at kde.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Cross-posting to the relevant mailing lists.
> >>
> >> To discuss, please answer to kde-community at kde.org.
> >>
> >> tl;dr There are several inactive or unused lists of the 181 mailing
> >> lists at KDE. What do we want to do with them?
> >>
> >> This is a post about inactive or unused mailing lists. For a general
> >> discussion about (active) mailing lists at KDE, please start a new
> >> thread or wait until I address that, likely in the very near future.
> >>
> >> _Inactive Mailing Lists_
> >>
> >> For a better understanding of what works and what needs improvement in
> >> KDE's internal communications, I started by looking at the 181 mailing
> >> lists publicly listed at:
> >>
> >>     https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/
> >>
> >> Here I see 51 mailing lists which might be considered inactive, some of
> >> which were never used at all. There may be more to add to this upon
> >> further inspection, but these seem like a good place to start.
> >>
> >> By inactive I mean there has been very low or no activity in the past
> >> 2-3 years at least, and for most lists the last post was 4+ years ago.
> >> For several of these lists, there are long gaps in activity, often with
> >> no community responses to the most recent posts.
> >>
> >> The 51 mailing lists are included at the end of this email.
> >>
> >> Importantly, I know a list with infrequent activity is *not* the same as
> >> a list that has no activity. Some communities do not need regular
> >> communication for that community to be active. If you see your
> >> community's mailing list here and think it is a mistake, please let me
> >> know! My apologies in advance if this is the case.
> >>
> >> Crucially, do not interpret an inactive mailing list to mean a project
> >> is inactive. It only means the mailing list is not a frequently used
> >> channel of communication. There are many other channels for community
> >> discussion (e.g., Matrix, Discuss, etc.).
> >>
> >> _Some Questions To The KDE Community_
> >>
> >>    * What do we want to do with inactive or unused mailing lists?
> >>
> >>    * Is there a policy for retiring inactive lists? I didn't see
> anything
> >> at the Community Wiki. [1]
> >>
> >>    * Does KDE have internal infrastructure to archive mailing lists for
> >> posterity? I see kwrite-devel [2] archived old posts at the "Mailing
> >> list ARChives" [3].
> >>
> >>    * Do we want to nudge traffic from low activity mailing lists to
> >> somewhere with generally higher activity (specifically, I am thinking
> >> Discuss)? I can imagine being in a more active online space could
> >> increase general participation for otherwise low activity groups.
> >>
> >> _Inactive Lists: To Close Or Not To Close_
> >>
> >> I am sure there are reasons both for and against closing mailing lists.
> >> Here are just some reasons I can think of to close inactive ones:
> >>
> >>    * The more communication channels there are, the more fractured KDE's
> >> communication is.
> >>
> >>    * It may not be obvious to new (or even old) contributors that a list
> >> is no longer in use, resulting in wasted energy signing up for an
> >> inactive one.
> >>
> >>    * Trying to engage with an inactive list may reduce motivation for
> >> futher contributions from members, especially when posts go unanswered.
> >>
> >>    * Moving some communities to more lively platforms may increase their
> >> overall activity.
> >>
> >>    * There could be a slight efficiency/ecological benefit for KDE's
> >> server infrastructure by removing or deactivating unused services.
> >>
> >> Pleae keep in mind: I am not judging the value of any particular group
> >> by pointing out low activity, or arguing we need to close any specific
> >> list. If there is a reason -- any reason at all -- to keep a list open,
> >> then let's keep it open! I myself like mailing lists for various forms
> >> of communication (announcements, long-form discussion, information which
> >> I want to archive locally for future reference, etc.).
> >>
> >> If I made any mistakes in my summary here, please let me know. It is a
> >> challenge to go through 181 lists and not make any errors, though I
> >> tried my best not to.
> >>
> >> I look forward to reading your thoughts and suggestions!
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Joseph
> >>
> >> [1] https://community.kde.org/Infrastructure/Mailing-Lists
> >> [2] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kwrite-devel
> >> [3] https://marc.info/
> >>
> >> # Overview
> >>
> >> Of the 181 mailing lists listed publicly, I found the following:
> >>
> >>    * 12 are lists that have never been used and 1 was already closed
> >>    * 27 are potentially-inactive general lists
> >>    * 11 are potentially-inactive language or country-specific lists
> >>
> >> # Unused / Closed Mailing Lists [13 Lists]
> >>
> >> ## Never Used [12 lists] ("No messages have been posted to this list
> >> yet, so the archives are currently empty.")
> >>
> >>    * Calligra-author:
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-author
> >>    * Cantor-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/cantor-bugs
> >>    * Gcompris-espanol:
> >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/gcompris-espanol
> >>    * Kde-dashboard: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-dashboard
> >>    * kde-games-bugs:
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-bugs
> >>    * Kde-i18n-it: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-it
> >>    * Kde-l10n-my: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-my
> >>    * Kde-l10n-sw: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-sw
> >>    * KDE-Look: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-look
> >>    * Kde-partnership:
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-partnership
> >>    * Kdepim-builds: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdepim-builds
> >>    * neon-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/neon-bugs
> >>
> >> ## Officially Closed [1 list]
> >>
> >>    * kde-nonlinux: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-nonlinux
> >>
> >> # Inactive General Lists [27 lists]
> >>
> >> ## Currently Inactive With Almost No Previous Activity [5 lists]
> >>
> >>    * kde-artists: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-artists
> >>    * Heaptrack: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/heaptrack
> >>    * CuteHMI: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/cutehmi
> >>    * Khtml-cvs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/khtml-cvs
> >>    * Cki-attendees: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/cki-attendees
> >>
> >> ## Currently Inactive With Low Previous Activity [2 lists]
> >>
> >>    * Snorenotify: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/snorenotify
> >>    * KXStitch: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kxstitch
> >>
> >> ## Currently Inactive But Previously Active [16 lists]
> >>
> >>    * Choquk-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/choqok-devel
> >>    * Kde-embedded: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-embedded
> >>    * Kde-buildsystem:
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-buildsystem
> >>    * WikiToLearn: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitolearn
> >>    * Marble-commits:
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/marble-commits
> >>    * Ksecretservice-devel:
> >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/ksecretservice-devel
> >>    * KDE-Telepathy: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-telepathy
> >>    * Kde-speech: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-speech
> >>    * Kexi: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kexi
> >>    * Enterprise: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/enterprise
> >>    * Marble: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/marble
> >>    * kde-women: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-women
> >>    * kde-usa: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usa
> >>    * kopete-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kopete-devel
> >>    * Kde-scm-interest:
> >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-scm-interest
> >>    * Kexi-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kexi-devel
> >>
> >> ## No Activity In 7+ Years [4 lists]
> >>
> >>    * SymbolEditor: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/symboleditor
> >>    * Gcompris-portugues:
> >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/gcompris-portugues
> >>    * kdelibs-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdelibs-bugs
> >>    * QmlWeb: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/qmlweb
> >>
> >> # Inactive Language/Country-Specific Mailing Lists [11 lists]
> >>
> >> ## Currently Inactive With Almost No Previous Activity [2 lists]
> >>
> >>    * Kde-i18n-eu: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-eu
> >>    * Kde-edu-pt_br: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu-pt_br
> >>
> >> ## Currently Inactive But Previously Active [5 lists]
> >>
> >>    * Kde-i18n-uk: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-uk
> >>    * KDE-india: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-india
> >>    * Kde-l10n-in: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-in
> >>    * Kde-latam: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-latam
> >>    * Kde-l10n-kn: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-kn
> >>
> >> ## No Activity In 7+ Years [3 lists]
> >>
> >>    * Kde-el: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-el
> >>    * kde-mexico: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-mexico
> >>    * Kde-l10n-si: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-si
> >>
> >> ## Infrequently Active [1 list]
> >>
> >>    * KDE-Italia: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-italia
> >>
> >> --
> >> Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss
> >> KDE Internal Communications & KDE Eco Community Manager
> >> OpenPGP: 8FC5 4178 DC44 AD55 08E7 DF57 453E 5746 59A6 C06F
> >> Matrix: @joseph:kde.org
> >>
> >> Generally available Monday-Thursday from 10-16h CET/CEST. Outside of
> >> these times it may take a little longer for me to respond.
> >>
> >> KDE Eco: Building Energy-Efficient Free Software!
> >> Website: https://eco.kde.org
> >> Mastodon: @be4foss at floss.social
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> --
> Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss
> KDE Internal Communications & KDE Eco Community Manager
> OpenPGP: 8FC5 4178 DC44 AD55 08E7 DF57 453E 5746 59A6 C06F
> Matrix: @joseph:kde.org
>
> Generally available Monday-Thursday from 10-16h CET/CEST. Outside of
> these times it may take a little longer for me to respond.
>
> KDE Eco: Building Energy-Efficient Free Software!
> Website: https://eco.kde.org
> Mastodon: @be4foss at floss.social
>
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