Inactive mailing lists

[Nicolas Fella]

Am 27.04.23 um 23:42 schrieb Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss:
> Cross-posting to the relevant mailing lists.
>
> To discuss, please answer to kde-community at kde.org.
>
> tl;dr There are several inactive or unused lists of the 181 mailing
> lists at KDE. What do we want to do with them?
>
> This is a post about inactive or unused mailing lists. For a general
> discussion about (active) mailing lists at KDE, please start a new
> thread or wait until I address that, likely in the very near future.
>
> _Inactive Mailing Lists_
>
> For a better understanding of what works and what needs improvement in
> KDE's internal communications, I started by looking at the 181 mailing
> lists publicly listed at:
>
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/
>
> Here I see 51 mailing lists which might be considered inactive, some
> of which were never used at all. There may be more to add to this upon
> further inspection, but these seem like a good place to start.
>
> By inactive I mean there has been very low or no activity in the past
> 2-3 years at least, and for most lists the last post was 4+ years ago.
> For several of these lists, there are long gaps in activity, often
> with no community responses to the most recent posts.
>
> The 51 mailing lists are included at the end of this email.
>
> Importantly, I know a list with infrequent activity is *not* the same
> as a list that has no activity. Some communities do not need regular
> communication for that community to be active. If you see your
> community's mailing list here and think it is a mistake, please let me
> know! My apologies in advance if this is the case.
>
> Crucially, do not interpret an inactive mailing list to mean a project
> is inactive. It only means the mailing list is not a frequently used
> channel of communication. There are many other channels for community
> discussion (e.g., Matrix, Discuss, etc.).
>
> _Some Questions To The KDE Community_
>
>  * What do we want to do with inactive or unused mailing lists?
>
>  * Is there a policy for retiring inactive lists? I didn't see
> anything at the Community Wiki. [1]
>
>  * Does KDE have internal infrastructure to archive mailing lists for
> posterity? I see kwrite-devel [2] archived old posts at the "Mailing
> list ARChives" [3].
>
>  * Do we want to nudge traffic from low activity mailing lists to
> somewhere with generally higher activity (specifically, I am thinking
> Discuss)? I can imagine being in a more active online space could
> increase general participation for otherwise low activity groups.
>
> _Inactive Lists: To Close Or Not To Close_
>
> I am sure there are reasons both for and against closing mailing
> lists. Here are just some reasons I can think of to close inactive ones:
>
>  * The more communication channels there are, the more fractured KDE's
> communication is.
>
>  * It may not be obvious to new (or even old) contributors that a list
> is no longer in use, resulting in wasted energy signing up for an
> inactive one.
>
>  * Trying to engage with an inactive list may reduce motivation for
> futher contributions from members, especially when posts go unanswered.
>
>  * Moving some communities to more lively platforms may increase their
> overall activity.
>
>  * There could be a slight efficiency/ecological benefit for KDE's
> server infrastructure by removing or deactivating unused services.
>
> Pleae keep in mind: I am not judging the value of any particular group
> by pointing out low activity, or arguing we need to close any specific
> list. If there is a reason -- any reason at all -- to keep a list
> open, then let's keep it open! I myself like mailing lists for various
> forms of communication (announcements, long-form discussion,
> information which I want to archive locally for future reference, etc.).
>
> If I made any mistakes in my summary here, please let me know. It is a
> challenge to go through 181 lists and not make any errors, though I
> tried my best not to.
>
> I look forward to reading your thoughts and suggestions!
>
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> [1] https://community.kde.org/Infrastructure/Mailing-Lists
> [2] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kwrite-devel
> [3] https://marc.info/
>
> # Overview
>
> Of the 181 mailing lists listed publicly, I found the following:
>
>  * 12 are lists that have never been used and 1 was already closed
>  * 27 are potentially-inactive general lists
>  * 11 are potentially-inactive language or country-specific lists
>
> # Unused / Closed Mailing Lists [13 Lists]
>
> ## Never Used [12 lists] ("No messages have been posted to this list
> yet, so the archives are currently empty.")
>
>  * Calligra-author: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-author
>  * Cantor-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/cantor-bugs
>  * Gcompris-espanol:
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/gcompris-espanol
>  * Kde-dashboard: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-dashboard
>  * kde-games-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-bugs
>  * Kde-i18n-it: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-it
>  * Kde-l10n-my: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-my
>  * Kde-l10n-sw: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-sw
>  * KDE-Look: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-look
>  * Kde-partnership: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-partnership
>  * Kdepim-builds: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdepim-builds
>  * neon-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/neon-bugs
>
> ## Officially Closed [1 list]
>
>  * kde-nonlinux: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-nonlinux
>
> # Inactive General Lists [27 lists]
>
> ## Currently Inactive With Almost No Previous Activity [5 lists]
>
>  * kde-artists: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-artists
>  * Heaptrack: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/heaptrack
>  * CuteHMI: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/cutehmi
>  * Khtml-cvs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/khtml-cvs
>  * Cki-attendees: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/cki-attendees
>
> ## Currently Inactive With Low Previous Activity [2 lists]
>
>  * Snorenotify: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/snorenotify
>  * KXStitch: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kxstitch
>
> ## Currently Inactive But Previously Active [16 lists]
>
>  * Choquk-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/choqok-devel
>  * Kde-embedded: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-embedded
>  * Kde-buildsystem: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-buildsystem
>  * WikiToLearn: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitolearn
>  * Marble-commits: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/marble-commits
>  * Ksecretservice-devel:
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/ksecretservice-devel
>  * KDE-Telepathy: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-telepathy
>  * Kde-speech: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-speech
>  * Kexi: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kexi
>  * Enterprise: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/enterprise
>  * Marble: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/marble
>  * kde-women: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-women
>  * kde-usa: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usa
>  * kopete-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kopete-devel
>  * Kde-scm-interest:
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-scm-interest
>  * Kexi-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kexi-devel
>
> ## No Activity In 7+ Years [4 lists]
>
>  * SymbolEditor: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/symboleditor
>  * Gcompris-portugues:
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/gcompris-portugues
>  * kdelibs-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdelibs-bugs
>  * QmlWeb: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/qmlweb
>
> # Inactive Language/Country-Specific Mailing Lists [11 lists]
>
> ## Currently Inactive With Almost No Previous Activity [2 lists]
>
>  * Kde-i18n-eu: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-eu
>  * Kde-edu-pt_br: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu-pt_br
>
> ## Currently Inactive But Previously Active [5 lists]
>
>  * Kde-i18n-uk: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-uk
>  * KDE-india: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-india
>  * Kde-l10n-in: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-in
>  * Kde-latam: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-latam
>  * Kde-l10n-kn: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-kn
>
> ## No Activity In 7+ Years [3 lists]
>
>  * Kde-el: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-el
>  * kde-mexico: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-mexico
>  * Kde-l10n-si: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-si
>
> ## Infrequently Active [1 list]
>
>  * KDE-Italia: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-italia

Hi,

there's various foo-bugs at kde.org lists in your list. Those (sometimes)
have a specific aspect, which is that they are the default assignee on
bugs.kde.org for that project.

There's something funky about it though. For example
kdelibs-bugs at kde.org is the default assignee for the frameworks-kirigami
product, so the archive should show lots of mails from that, but doesn't.

Whether this is a good use of mailing lists is of course up for debate.

Cheers

Nico

PS: Evaluating how "Default Assignee" and generally automatic
subscription to bugreports works could be a good idea. Currently the
established way to get CC'd on bugs for a specific thing is to tell Nate
"Please CC me for XY bugs" and then Nate does some obscure config to
make it happen

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