[kde-china] Fwd: Rosetta and Upstream

[Ni Hui]

..................................................................

http://www.linux-archive.org/kubuntu-development/276454-rosetta-upstream.html

someone interested 说的是我吧...   ;)
看来这条提交摘要引起关注了。。。
我的那次修改的确改了很多用词风格，以及笔误
原因有：
程序内用词保持一致，比如"year"，有的地方翻成“年”，有的地方是“年份”
和 kde 环境全局保持一直，比如"load"，kde 其它程序都是翻成“装入”的

我说 launchpad 翻译质量不好，请不要单单看我的改动。
因为 amarok 这个 po 本身比较大，我知道 review 是非常耗时耗精力，而且很难保证 review 后就没有大的问题。
aronxu 已经三次复查，眼睛都疼了，也不是全部改正得过来的，可想而知最初的 launchpad 翻译文件是如何的了....
aronxu 复查用去约 4 小时，我查的时候用了 5 小时。

it would have been much constructive to teach the translators what was wrong 
or not matching their guidelines or glossary of terms
这件事想做，但已经没办法了(历史因素)，launchpad 上翻译 amarok 的人都不知道在哪儿，哪句是谁做的也不知道。
总之，就现在而言，情况正在慢慢变好，期望 timelord 有突破。
我个人更喜欢 knetworkmanager 那样子，翻译者又可以参与翻译，又能知道自己应该如何实行，又能从 reviewer 那边得到回馈，良性促进(其实
有些类似于 gnome-l10n 那样子，而 launchpad 还是历史因素，没有这个流程)
个人认为 launchpad 上的翻译还没有足够好到可以直接提交上游，建议 push 的时候弄个流程，由翻译者直接提交邮件列表，这样更方便回馈。
amarok 这个文件也许后无来者了～
不知 lieex 意见如何。

aronxu 加油！

谢谢 aronxu 向老外解释～～  :P

nihui

ps:我很久以前也在 launchpad 上面做过翻译，后来因为对质量实在看不下去才翻译上游文件的......
ubuntu-china 本地化队伍加油！


在 星期二 10 十一月 2009 02:10:36，Aron Xu 写道：
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Aron Xu <happyaron.xu在gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Rosetta and Upstream
> To: David Planella <david.planella在ubuntu.com>
> Cc: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel在lists.ubuntu.com>,
> KDE-China <kde-china在kde.org>
> 
> 
> Thus, I feel kind of difficult to cooperate with upstream even though
> I have upstream commit right. Please don't consider me as part of
> upstream in my following messages because I will take mostly the
> opinions from downstream now, :)
> 
> For quality, translations directly on LP for KDE applications are
> still far behind upstream due to some reasons that related to former
> lacking coordination on Ubuntu Simplified Chinese Translators, and it
> is changing rapidly at present. But this commit is really kind of
> puzzling because I have reviewed that file with caution before commit
> to repository. That long diff produced by this commit is showing its
> uselessness, I think and I have read the diff line-by-line just like
> what the commit message documented. Mostly this commit changed a style
> of translation, which style I guess is more suitable for the
> reviewer's taste. I don't believe a file can contain such a large
> quantity of mistakes after my review, or many users may have already
> complained about translations I've worked on, :)
> 
> Taking this opportunity, I would like to talk about something I got
> when working on translations downstream as well as upstream.
> 
> Firstly, it is a hard job when communicating each other. There ARE
> people upstream don't like Launchpad unreasonable, maybe there was
> some bad impression that LP had ever given them. Also people familiar
> with LP like to take it's advantages such as convenience, and perhaps
> don't like to go upstream very much.
> 
> Secondly, Kubuntu users and contributors are evidently far less than
> Ubuntu, at least I can confirm this in the Greater China user circles.
> Yesterday somebody was talking with me about there are more
> "well-known" translators working for GNOME as well as Ubuntu than that
> on KDE and Kubuntu.
> 
> Thirdly, the release time of KDE and Kubuntu is something not good for
> communication and cooperation. The integration of GNOME upstream and
> Ubuntu downstream in zh_CN is getting very well and most of best
> translators on Ubuntu are sent upstream. But for KDE, it is really
> difficult even when I want to write a plan for those who on downstream
> team want to work for upstream, so they just do it on LP, leave it
> there. And upstream don't like to accept the translations due to maybe
> some issues, either.
> 
> Forthly, zh_CN KDE upstream is lacking hands but I still haven't get a
> very proper way to provide such assistance from Ubuntu Simplified
> Chinese Translators that can make both sides happy. I can commit the
> reviewed messages to KDE svn directly but this will sure make some
> people unhappy both sides like this time.
> 
> Things might look to be ridiculous to have such a conflict (this
> commit, I mean) taking place, because Lie_Ex is the person who take
> the most maintainace work on KDE upstream currently, but the fact is
> some other people may don't like LP and take a special care on what
> was originated from LP, and such situation may caused by a natural
> reaction that LP had given them a bad impression before as I've
> mentioned.
> 
> It could be something unsuitable for upstream leaving such comment on
> downstream contributions since we are working on providing a better
> result for users and a better free software community. We need more
> and more communication and find out a way to cooperate then make it a
> better eco-system. The way will differ from Ubuntu/Gnome, because we
> have quite different situations.
> 
> I believe such conflicts between upstream and downstream are not the
> only example. So I suggest that before our making any plan on Project
> TimeLord (or just the translation part), let's take a more
> comprehensive discussion on the current state of various languages'
> Ubuntu Translators team when they working with their respective
> upstream teams, and further more, what is the better way to work with
> upstream, how to set up a healthy eco-system. This may lead our work
> to a more reasonable and effective one.
> 
> As for Project Timelord, changes on translations cannot drop the
> translation teams and users away then just write out a plan. We need
> to know what our translators and users are thinking and doing but not
> only some of developers and upstream voices. We are facing our users
> and co-working with our teams, not only developers can tell the whole
> things and we need to hear more from others. Contributors and users
> are our work's key and need most care, I suppose.
> 
> Comments welcomed, :)
> 
> PS: I am CCing this mail to kde-china在kde.org, hopefully can make
> someone interested join our discussion.
> 
> Best regards,
> Aron Xu
> 
> 2009/11/9 David Planella <david.planella在ubuntu.com>:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > El ds 07 de 11 de 2009 a les 12:32 +0100, en/na Harald Sitter va
> >
> > escriure:
> >> What zh_cn upstream thinks of upstreamed rosetta translations:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >> For reference: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/?rev=1046024&view=rev
> >>
> >> I suppose you all know by now how that makes me feel :(
> >
> > Let's put this into context, after a chat with Aron Xu, who works on
> > coordinating the Ubuntu Simplified Chinese team (and has also got commit
> > rights on KDE upstream).
> >
> > The Ubuntu Simplified Chinese translations team noticed that the Amarok
> > translation was not complete upstream and that no one was working on it,
> > so they took the translation from Launchpad, reviewed it and sent it
> > upstream.
> >
> > The translation apparently did not meet the KDE upstream standards,
> > which is fair enough. In my opinion though, it would have been much
> > constructive to teach the translators what was wrong or not matching
> > their guidelines or glossary of terms rather than writing a commit
> > message which in my oppinion sounds unfair to the work of those
> > translators doing both the translation and upstreaming.
> >
> > From my point of view, the Simplified Chinese Ubuntu translators did the
> > right thing. If there were something to improve, I could only think of
> > more communication.
> >
> > Regards,
> > David.
> >
> > P.S. In case they want to add any comments, I'm CC'ing Aron and Lie_Ex,
> > who have been leading an effort to improve the quality of K/Ubuntu
> > Simplified Chinese and in my opinion are doing an awesome job at it.
> >
> > --
> > David Planella
> > Ubuntu Translations Coordinator
> > david(dot)planella(at)ubuntu(dot)com
> > www.ubuntu.com
> 
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> 

-- 
http://shuizhuyuanluo.blog.163.com/
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