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[Jaroslaw Staniek]

On 22 November 2011 03:39, Sebastian Sauer <mail at dipe.org> wrote:
> On 11/21/2011 03:29 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek wrote:

>> The action in topic was about exporting directly and for whatever
>> reason it's specifically to Tables, not to an ODS file.
>
> Ah. So, Reports opens the Tables application and fills it sheets leaving the
> user the possibility to save then to whatever format it supports? Then
> indeed "Export to OpenDocument Spreadsheet" makes not much sense.
>
> Now what happens if Kexi starts to export to Words/Stage/Plan? Is "Export to
> Words" or "Export to Stage" or "Export to Plan" really that much different
> to "Export to Tables"?
>
> If we look at OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice (which is probably a good sample
> for comparision cause it uses rather common names like Writer, Calc and
> Impress too [*]) and choose there e.g. Insert=>OLE Object then we see this
> list;
> * LibreOffice 3.4 Text
> * LibreOffice 3.4 Spreadsheet
> * LibreOffice 3.4 Chart
> * LibreOffice 3.4 Drawing
> * LibreOffice 3.4 Presentation
> * LibreOffice 3.4 Formula
>

Of course I agree. We never wanted to slash the full names from the
'filter' combo box or various format lists. This would wouldn't make
much sense even if we did not care about branding. Please assume we
often have two-stage process of export/import format selection: e.g.
1. click a button like "Export data to file" (in the sense: CSV data),
2. Select destination format. There even could be 3. select
format-specific options (there already is in fact - for CSV).
That's just example. Expect Kexi one day being able to create
presentation document out of metadata and present it with Stage :)

There is 'one stage' command that would use 'Tables' in name: Connect
with Tables, what shows that the app(s) name(s) will stay on the very
top of the GUI sometimes. 'Connect' is a DDE-like feature planned as a
side project for Predicate.

What I like that more people show their care about presence/branding now :)

> Note that 1) it explicit names the common "LibreOffice" brand and 2) they
> are not using the application-names here but even more describing names.
>
> I think that is a rather good idea cause It makes the user aware that he is
> using different tools from the LibreOffice "solution". All those tools form
> the whole package. It's "LibreOffice" and not "Writer/Calc/Impress/...".
> That also solves the problem that charting and formula don't really have own
> names and more so in Calligra where they are just plugins now. I think that
> was the idea behind us choosing such common names like
> Words/Stage/Tables/Plan back then too. Turn Calligra into the brand and not
> the app-names. Have one and not n different brands.
>
> What I found very interesting here is that they completely left out the
> application-names and went with using Text/Spreadsheet/Presentation/etc.
> It's even consistent cause if you choose e.g. file=>open then it says in the
> filter "Text documents", "Spreadsheets", "Applications". Also if you open
> kickoff (the KDE app-launcher) and browse to LibreOffice then it becomes
> even more clear. There it says;
> * LibreOffice Writer (Word processor)
> * LibreOffice Calc (Spreadsheet)
> * LibreOffice Impress (Presentation)
> where the first is the app-name (common branding is LibreOffice) and the
> second the comment. With the exception of "Word processor" vs "Text" it's
> even consistent with the list of OLE-objects.
>
> In any case you will find *NOWHERE* in the UI the situation where only
> "Writer", "Calc" or "Impress" is used. That would not only confuse the user
> but also go against the common brand idea. And that is why I think the
> original problem lies in you using "Export to Tables" rather then something
> that matches. So, either "Export to Calligra Tables" or "Export to
> Spreadsheet" (note that we are using the "Spreadsheet" name already in the
> same way OO.org/LibreOffice do and it is very prominent the thing that is
> displayed as caption in kickoff).
>
>> If it was just export to file, spreadsheet term would be used, without
>> cluttering the gui with the format name - save dialog is the place for
>> app/format names not a button. This is how MS manged to clutter its
>> interface over years :)
>
> Well, when we follow our brand-idea then it should be indeed "Export to
> Calligra Tables/Words/..." or we decide to go with more describing names
> like "Text/Spreadsheet/Presentation/...". In any case the important thing
> here is to be consistent.

Yes.

> But I think renaming the application is really the
> most bad thing you can do here. Especially if you only rename one of them.

There is difference in occurences of 'words' and 'tables' and 'plan'
and 'stage' nouns in our users' world (that maps to our GUI messages
and handbook texts).
It just happened that Tables is unfortunately more used in at least
two contexts (database tables and in-wordprocessor/presentation
tables).
This is why I see no such problems in the case of the other apps
(Words, Plan, Stage). So I do not see a need for such a global rename,
and I wouldn't say names wil be really inconsistent when only Tables
would be renamed (again, if the core contributors agree to that).

-- 
regards / pozdrawiam, Jaroslaw Staniek
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
 Kexi & Calligra (kexi-project.org, identi.ca/kexi, calligra-suite.org)
 KDE Software Development Platform on MS Windows (windows.kde.org)