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[Sebastian Sauer]

On 11/21/2011 03:29 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek wrote:
>>
>> I would like to start with defining the problem. That was greatly done
>> through I personally do not agree with the result that a renaming is needed.
>> I mean for the same reason we would need to rename Words cause ppl may
>> confuse it with a "Count words" menu-item in Tables and we would need to
>> rename Plan cause there may a "Planing resource" plugin.
>>
>> Personally I agree 100% with Thorstens conclusion on this for the specific
>> problem described with Kexi ("Export to Tables"). Kexi should not use the
>> applicaton-name but the format-name cause that menu-point does not only
>> "Export to Calligra Tables" but does "Export to OpenDocument Spreadsheet"
>> what includes OO.org/LO/MSOffice.
> The action in topic was about exporting directly and for whatever
> reason it's specifically to Tables, not to an ODS file.

Ah. So, Reports opens the Tables application and fills it sheets leaving 
the user the possibility to save then to whatever format it supports? 
Then indeed "Export to OpenDocument Spreadsheet" makes not much sense.

Now what happens if Kexi starts to export to Words/Stage/Plan? Is 
"Export to Words" or "Export to Stage" or "Export to Plan" really that 
much different to "Export to Tables"?

If we look at OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice (which is probably a good 
sample for comparision cause it uses rather common names like Writer, 
Calc and Impress too [*]) and choose there e.g. Insert=>OLE Object then 
we see this list;
* LibreOffice 3.4 Text
* LibreOffice 3.4 Spreadsheet
* LibreOffice 3.4 Chart
* LibreOffice 3.4 Drawing
* LibreOffice 3.4 Presentation
* LibreOffice 3.4 Formula

Note that 1) it explicit names the common "LibreOffice" brand and 2) 
they are not using the application-names here but even more describing 
names.

I think that is a rather good idea cause It makes the user aware that he 
is using different tools from the LibreOffice "solution". All those 
tools form the whole package. It's "LibreOffice" and not 
"Writer/Calc/Impress/...". That also solves the problem that charting 
and formula don't really have own names and more so in Calligra where 
they are just plugins now. I think that was the idea behind us choosing 
such common names like Words/Stage/Tables/Plan back then too. Turn 
Calligra into the brand and not the app-names. Have one and not n 
different brands.

What I found very interesting here is that they completely left out the 
application-names and went with using Text/Spreadsheet/Presentation/etc. 
It's even consistent cause if you choose e.g. file=>open then it says in 
the filter "Text documents", "Spreadsheets", "Applications". Also if you 
open kickoff (the KDE app-launcher) and browse to LibreOffice then it 
becomes even more clear. There it says;
* LibreOffice Writer (Word processor)
* LibreOffice Calc (Spreadsheet)
* LibreOffice Impress (Presentation)
where the first is the app-name (common branding is LibreOffice) and the 
second the comment. With the exception of "Word processor" vs "Text" 
it's even consistent with the list of OLE-objects.

In any case you will find *NOWHERE* in the UI the situation where only 
"Writer", "Calc" or "Impress" is used. That would not only confuse the 
user but also go against the common brand idea. And that is why I think 
the original problem lies in you using "Export to Tables" rather then 
something that matches. So, either "Export to Calligra Tables" or 
"Export to Spreadsheet" (note that we are using the "Spreadsheet" name 
already in the same way OO.org/LibreOffice do and it is very prominent 
the thing that is displayed as caption in kickoff).

> If it was just export to file, spreadsheet term would be used, without
> cluttering the gui with the format name - save dialog is the place for
> app/format names not a button. This is how MS manged to clutter its
> interface over years :)

Well, when we follow our brand-idea then it should be indeed "Export to 
Calligra Tables/Words/..." or we decide to go with more describing names 
like "Text/Spreadsheet/Presentation/...". In any case the important 
thing here is to be consistent. But I think renaming the application is 
really the most bad thing you can do here. Especially if you only rename 
one of them. Either we rename them all so they all can be used 
standalone or we rename none. Else what you get is inconsistency^n and 
that direct in the UI.

>> The problem that sometimes in the communication between us Calligra-Tables
>> and tables-in-words are exchanged is not so easy to solve. I guess people
>> will create bugreport writing "Tables not load" or will ask quesitons like
>> "Why using tables crashes" (does he/she means Calligra Tables or using
>> tables in Words?). That's indeed a problem that (Calligra) Tables maybe does
>> not share with Words (thanks to the "s" at the end) or Stage.
> yes

And we have the same problem with Words and Plan at least cause someone 
could also come up with bugreports like "words in tables not displayed" 
what could have n different meanings including application-names.

So, *when* we are going to change the Tables name to solve that then we 
*need* to do the same for Words and probably also Plan. Looks as the 
only thing being somewhat save here is Stage.