change of program icon

[Albert Astals Cid]

El Dilluns, 3 de març de 2014, a les 22:47:06, Sebastian Kügler va escriure:
> Hi,
> 
> On Monday, March 03, 2014 19:27:29 Albert Astals Cid wrote:
> > El Dilluns, 3 de març de 2014, a les 13:10:30, Sebastian Kügler va 
escriure:
> > > On Monday, March 03, 2014 01:27:42 Wolfgang Rohdewald wrote:
> > > > Am Montag, 17. Februar 2014, 23:14:56 schrieb Albert Astals Cid:
> > > > 
> > > > would it be too late to give the game Kajongg a new program icon?
> > > > The new one looks better with smaller resolutions.
> > > > 
> > > > Here it is:
> > > > http://www.rohdewald.de/oss/kajongg.svgz
> > > 
> > > This doesn't follow the Oxygen style, which introduces a consistency
> > > problem.
> > 
> > The old icon didn't either (or that's what i think by looking at it), so
> > no
> > consistency problem is introduced.
> 
> The old icon is much more "oxygeny" than the newly proposed one, so yes, it
> introduces a consistency problem.

Ok, i'll accept your opinion since i'm obviously lacking in artistic skills 
:-)

> 
> > > An icon change like this would have to be discussed on the
> > > kde-artists list, not on release-team.
> > 
> > I agree their opinion is interesting, and if they can provide a better
> > icon
> > that is oxygen-like Wolfgang is probably interested.
> > 
> > But i disagree kde-artists should have the power to block an icon change
> > they  didn't contribute over and that affects a single application?
> 
> Saying that artists are only allowed to change the work they've committed
> before is making sure we won't ever get anything done professionally in that
> area.

Hmmm, ok, I may have expressed myself correctly, let me try to rephrase.

This icon is *not* an oxygen icon, it is an hi-color icon. Oxygen iconset can 
still provide a better icon if the oxygen authors have time for it. As I said, 
I am sure Wolfgang would appreciate help with the icon, but ultimately, he is 
the maintainer of that application, so he gets to choose what application he 
ships (more over when it's an hi-color iconset icon, so he's not even claiming 
it to be oxygen-y).

Does this make more sense?

> 
> > In my opinion this is amonsgt the maintainer of the application and the
> > release-team (that is the one that enfonces the Freezes).
> 
> Then your opinion means that the release-team can block, but cannot
> explicitely allow.

Probably wrong wording on my side again. The Freezes are what creates the 
blocks and the r-t gives exceptions on these freezes. This is how we have 
always worked as far as i can remember.

> 
> > With my release-team hat, I say you can change it in KDE/4.13 since you've
> > already changed it in master and I don't see a need to delay it.
> 
> So we're back to doing willy-nilly art work without no concept whatsoever?
> :(
> Let's at least bring it up with the artists and give them a chance to chip
> in. Nobody is talking about blocking anything, but outright ignoring
> artists opinion (and diminishing their efforts this way) is not how we
> should work together.

Why haven't you CC'ed them yet?

> My experience is that they're happy to help (modulo time problems, of
> course), not 'happy to block', and they're usually the first ones to
> acknowledge a visual problem -- which this clearly is.

Time problems are¿where? big, my experience is that i've never been able to 
get an icon i needed from the artist team because they always had more 
important things to do (which i understand and i'm not complaining about)

> My experience is also that by not even considering their opinion, or just by
> not even choosing the right channel for this, we're making sure that we're
> not a community welcoming to artists. Just because we *can* commit anything
> doesn't mean we *should* ignore the expertise and input of domain experts.

You mean the artists don't have a representative on the release-team? Why? 
They should. This way the release-team could function correctly in the art-
related freezes.

> The issue at hand is by no means so urgent that we should skip over
> meaningful ways of improving the situation, and we have more suitable
> channels for that than the r-t list.

I disagree, as I said, this is about a Freeze exception and the r-t should be 
the one to decide. If the artist have decided to not be part of the r-t or the 
r-t has not done enough to engage artists to be part of it, that's a different 
thing and it indeed needs fixing.

> Frankly, I also think we can do better than the proposed icon.

We can always do better. That's not the question, the question is if we can do 
better in a reasonable time.

Cheers,
  Albert

> 
> Cheers,