Minutes Monday Plasma Hangout

Mon Sep 25 11:13:41 UTC 2017

Meeting minutes!
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org
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Plasma Meeting 25-09-2017

Present: jensreut, Sho_, kbroulik, fvogt, Riddell, d_ed, bshah, sebas

jensreut:
* VDG management

Sho:
* Did emergency v1.0.3 release of Simple Menu to fix favorites on Plasma v5.11
* On vacation last week but did a massive amount of coding on Konversation -> https://userbase.kde.org/Konversation/Konvi2x#Work_log
* QtWS coordination

d_ed:
* new plasma beta release, everything is broken
* redid the way QQC2 style is set, it's now not polluting other dev's envs
* Fixed global menu and autohide
* A KWayland race condition (fixed it potentially crashing the server, then changed it so that state wouldn't happen anyway)
* Changed the kscreen auto scaling to not try to autoscale projectors or virtual screens (where DPI can't be calculated)

Riddell:
* 10 days until 5.11 tars are made!
* Qt 5.10 alpha now available in neon

fvogt:
- has nothing to report (but I saw him helping to debug screen scaling problems, so he's probably lieing ;-))

bshah:
- Arch linux images
    - Spend half of week debugging why I can't mount /firmware partition
    - Turns out it is the selinux context= option in fstab, which is not recognized by mount becuase coreutils is not built with selinux support
- Halium
    - investigated a libybris build failure with glibc 2.26
    - only to realize it was fixed by someone else already : https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris/commit/9128c0ac80ff713b3b45

sebas:
- debugged and fixed https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384733 (fixes went into three different repos, which makes it seriously hairy stuff)
- regression caused by one of the above patches, also fixed and confirmed
- wrote privacy software goal https://phabricator.kde.org/T7050 (please put your name under it!)
- Blogged about history of Plasma Mobile https://vizzzion.org/blog/2017/09/the-evolution-of-plasma-mobile/
- Wrote another blog about convergence (will publish tomorrow I guess, want to include AlexL's concept X as possible direction there)

The Log:

[12:04:03] <sebas> Meeting time!
[12:04:11] <sebas> Who's here for that?
[12:04:36] <jensreut> Im here but have almost zero plasma stuff to support
[12:04:52] <Sho_> here too
[12:05:06] <jensreut> bshah: is at dentist
[12:05:14] <jensreut> (I think he said)
[12:05:50] -*- fvogt too, with nothing to report
[12:06:04] <kbroulik> meeting
[12:06:14] <kbroulik> (I just felt like Internet Explorer)
[12:06:37] <sebas> Alright, then jens reports his almost zero stuff, then Sho, then kbroulik
[12:06:48] <sebas> I'll finish and we go our merry ways
[12:07:06] <-- agurenko (~agurenko at 83.220.237.58) has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[12:07:07] --> fekepp1 (~Thunderbi at 2a00:1398:9:fb00:863a:4bff:fe10:5650) has joined #plasma
[12:07:23] <jensreut> Almost Zero about Plasma: VDG 2.0 planning puttering along. Will start setting up talks about it in the private VDG channel
[12:07:37] <jensreut> Almost Zero about Plasma: done.
[12:07:55] <Sho_> Eike Hein:
[12:07:56] <Sho_> * Did emergency v1.0.3 release of Simple Menu to fix favorites on Plasma v5.11
[12:07:56] <Sho_> * On vacation last week but did a massive amount of coding on Konversation -> https://userbase.kde.org/Konversation/Konvi2x#Work_log
[12:07:56] <Sho_> * QtWS coordination
[12:08:13] <jensreut> Oh it also means that if you're not a designer, you wont be in the VDG private room come tomorrow (addendum to almost zero)
[12:08:23] <Sho_> heh, the name header is because I copied it from Telegram which I used as notepad
[12:08:48] <-- fekepp (~Thunderbi at 2a00:1398:200:200:863a:4bff:fe10:5650) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:08:49] <-> fekepp1 is now known as fekepp
[12:09:00] <Sho_> Oh and Marco is absent I can report on some Kirigami stuff related to the Konvi work
[12:09:34] <Sho_> Konversation's design as well as other VDG designs contain a UI area that is dark or inverse-colored
[12:10:07] <Sho_> we've been teaching Kirigami how to do that, using sort of a on-steroids version of Plasma's old ColorScope
[12:10:34] <Sho_> it's much more sophisticated and performant, and repalettes and recolors icons niftily across platforms and styles
[12:10:49] <Sho_> Marco worked his butt off there
[12:11:02] <sebas> yeah awesome!
[12:11:05] <Sho_> and that's it from my side :)
[12:11:13] <sebas> Also, cool konvi stuff (was about to ask, I'll check on that then!)
[12:11:42] <Sho_> I will do a cool progress blog report with animations sometime this week I hope
[12:11:42] <sebas> jensreut: what's the reason to have private conversations, shouldn't it be open by default as to make it easier for others to follow and join in?
[12:11:47] <sebas> Sho_: nice
[12:12:06] <Sho_> (Plasma and QtWS permitting :)
[12:12:30] <Sho_> But yeah it was probably my most productive week this year ... on vacation ;)
[12:12:43] <jensreut> No. this is about internal organisation and I want to know their issues and I dont want your feedback to begin with. The VDG private channel was never ment for design work and external communication - but the "nonsense" and "blowing off steam" that is now happening in individual chats making it even less effective.
[12:12:56] <jensreut> "Dont want your feedback IN THE BEGINNING" sry english
[12:13:35] <sebas> Aye, I get that ... didn't know you had "blowing off steam", where does that come from?
[12:13:49] <jensreut> day to day work :)
[12:14:25] <sebas> I meant which kind of people blow off steam?
[12:14:41] <jensreut> Sometimes someone will go "I hate all programmers" and that is not ment as feedback to programmers but when you're frustrated. I want to make sure that no one thins that that is anything more than "Ouch I stupped my toe" screaming.
[12:14:43] <sebas> is that you designer guys needing a place to vent, or others complaining about you, or yet something else?
[12:15:01] <sebas> (Seems like an unhealthy thing, so I'd like to know more about it, perhaps we can do something about it as well...)
[12:15:03] <jensreut> Us, if its someone else that should be in the public channel
[12:15:23] <sebas> haha, okay. You're allowed to hate all programmers :D
[12:15:26] <jensreut> heh now it sounds really dramatic... :D
[12:15:28] <-- guoyunhe (~sign at dsl-hkibng11-50dcc9-195.dhcp.inet.fi) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:15:39] <sebas> nah, that's normal
[12:16:16] <jensreut> It HAS happened that something was really frustrating and someone goes "aaaau7uurrurgggh!" and I just want to have that contained and also part of smaller discussions that doesnt concern actual design projects. Separate the two for now. They have been too mixed up
[12:17:12] <jensreut> (also no one hates all programmers... MOST programmers, we hate "most programmers" ;) )
[12:17:24] <sebas> gheghe
[12:17:27] <sebas> alright, cool :)
[12:17:32] <sebas> thanks for handling that
[12:17:56] <jensreut> I just want to say it here so no one thinks I am moving them out of the group for some horrible reason. Its for now...
[12:18:26] <sebas> nope, got it
[12:18:32] <jensreut> <3
[12:19:03] <sebas> kbroulik:
[12:19:08] <kbroulik> * Some fixes and minor performance improvements here and there
[12:19:08] <sebas> your turn
[12:19:12] <kbroulik> We've got a new very eager contributor (in Dolphin and kde apps mostly but still) https://phabricator.kde.org/p/ngraham/ so please have a look at some of his review requests and make him feel welcome :)
[12:19:15] <kbroulik> that's it from me
[12:20:09] <d_ed> jensreut: quite a few of those need VDG input ^. you guys are tagged in them
[12:20:26] <Riddell> 10 days until 5.11 tars are made!
[12:20:32] <Riddell> Sho_: did you update the release announce?
[12:20:42] <jensreut> kbroulik: he is probably already on board (we have him pegged as future VDG bugwrangler)
[12:20:57] <fvogt> ngraham, isn't that PointiestStick on reddit, the gui who made looong posts with complaints in the beginning?
[12:21:04] <fvogt> s/gui/guy/...
[12:21:14] <jensreut> Yup
[12:21:16] <d_ed> fvogt: I believe so
[12:21:22] <Sho_> Riddell: argh, I forgot because of the power outage and now I'm not at a system with ssh keys. when is the release?
[12:21:31] <sebas> d_ed: your turn :-)
[12:21:38] <Sho_> oh, you just said
[12:21:47] <Riddell> Sho_: I refer the honourable gentleman to the comments I made some momets ago
[12:21:52] <Sho_> Riddell: will edit tmrw, promised!
[12:22:13] <d_ed> new release, everything is broken
[12:22:14] -*- Sho_ writes big todo note
[12:22:16] <Riddell> but translators will want it pronto
[12:22:23] <-- Son_Goku (~King_InuY at fedora/ngompa) has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[12:22:31] <d_ed> redid the way QQC2 style is set, it's now not polluting other dev's envs
[12:22:38] <sebas> fvogt: I'll put this in the notes for you:  "- has nothing to report (but I saw him helping to debug screen scaling problems, so he's probably lieing ;-))"
[12:22:49] <Sho_> Riddell: if tomorrow is too late, should I send you notes now?
[12:22:55] <-- Haudegen (~quassel at 178.115.237.87) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:22:56] <Sho_> (sorry David)
[12:22:59] <-- nowrep (~david at kde/developer/drosca) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[12:23:09] <sebas> d_ed: new release of ...? (Plasma Beta?)
[12:23:15] <d_ed> Plasma
[12:23:26] --> TheKit (~nekit at 85.143.20.2) has joined #plasma
[12:23:35] --> freeman42y (~freeman42 at 37.228.231.78) has joined #plasma
[12:24:04] <d_ed> * Fixed global menu and autohide
[12:24:31] <d_ed> * A KWayland race condition (fixed it potentially crashing the server, then changed it so that state wouldn't happen anyway)
[12:25:02] <d_ed> * Changed the kscreen auto scaling to not try to autoscale projectors or virtual screens (where DPI can't be calculated)
[12:26:22] <d_ed> as we're in a meeting, does anyone have any opinions on the "new widgets to plasma" thread? Otherwise I'll probably end up helping incubate them
[12:26:55] <Sho_> I'm opposed to the redshift one
[12:27:07] <Sho_> It's redundant with Roman's night mode
[12:27:20] <sebas> from my POV, it seemed fine, but not terribly convinced of neither option
[12:27:41] <Sho_> btw: shadeslayer has been telling me launcher favorites are borked on his odroid images with the beta but I have not been able to repro, testing appreciated
[12:27:47] <Sho_> re release borkage
[12:27:48] <sebas> Sho_: Hm, it's complementary actually, Roman's stuff is wayland only, no?
[12:27:56] <Sho_> (no bug reports for beta on it)
[12:28:02] <sebas> so we'd need a way to not show redshit on X
[12:28:08] <d_ed> sebas: currently it is, there's no reason it has to be
[12:28:14] <sebas> or have them merged with different backends
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[12:28:34] <Sho_> sebas: yeah, but do we really want to end up with a situation where we ship widget that's confusingly treading the same ground as other options in the UI?
[12:28:37] <sebas> and it's an often requested feature I think, I'd actually be okay with plasma-addons
[12:28:45] <sebas> nice way to incubate the dev as well...
[12:28:53] <d_ed> well he wants his own repo rather than into p-d/p-w
[12:29:05] <Sho_> oh
[12:29:12] <Sho_> that's totally fine ofc
[12:29:23] <Sho_> no reason they can't dev om kde
[12:29:30] <Sho_> *dev on kde.org
[12:29:46] <Sho_> I thought it was about release inclusion
[12:30:37] <sebas> should we continue that on the list then?
[12:31:06] <sebas> incubating into KDE is fine anyway, making it part of official Plasma is the question
[12:31:17] <sebas> also touches the scope, how much will we keep adding...
[12:31:42] <sebas> Anyway, Riddell: anything to report?
[12:31:53] <Riddell> Qt 5.10 alpha now available in neon
[12:32:00] <Riddell> I'll do a blog shortly
[12:32:14] <Riddell> kirigami stuff crashes as does the clock so anyone who can help on that would be good
[12:32:35] <Riddell> and tars in 10 days for release in 15 days for 5.11
[12:32:36] <Riddell> is all
[12:32:39] <Sho_> Riddell: if editing the announcement tomorrow is too late, should I send notes now?
[12:32:41] <sebas> ow, so for now I better not update my neon git unstable?
[12:33:02] <Riddell> sebas: it's hidden in the secret testing/ repo so you won't get it unless you have that enabled for whatever reason
[12:33:09] <sebas> okay, good :)
[12:33:16] <Riddell> which only nutters like soee do
[12:33:21] <sebas> I often upgrade willy-nilly
[12:33:30] <sebas> (another kind of nutter)
[12:33:36] <Riddell> Sho_: if you have them sure I can do that and keep the translators happier
[12:33:47] <d_ed> Riddell: can you explain "the clock crashes"
[12:34:21] <-- TheKit (~nekit at 85.143.20.2) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:35:01] <Riddell> d_ed: https://i.imgur.com/cpEY4Gw.jpg
[12:35:43] <Riddell> CalendarView unavailable
[12:37:02] <sebas> Let's debug this further post-meeting as to not hold the meeting up...
[12:37:20] <sebas> my turn, and then go ahead...
[12:37:25] <sebas> - debugged and fixed https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384733 (fixes went into three different repos, which makes it seriously hairy stuff)
[12:37:25] <sebas> - regression caused by one of the above patches, also fixed and confirmed
[12:37:25] <sebas> - wrote privacy software goal https://phabricator.kde.org/T7050 (please put your name under it!)
[12:37:25] <sebas> - Blogged about history of Plasma Mobile https://vizzzion.org/blog/2017/09/the-evolution-of-plasma-mobile/
[12:37:25] <sebas> - Wrote another blog about convergence (will publish tomorrow I guess, want to include AlexL's concept X as possible direction there)
[12:37:25] <sKreamer> KDE bug 384733 in KScreen (kded) "Wayland configs are not saved" [normal,FIXED] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384733
[12:37:25] <sKreamer> Task 7050 "Privacy Software" [Open,Normal] {Goal settings 2017} https://phabricator.kde.org/T7050
[12:37:49] <sebas> I think keeping Plasma Mobile visible is going quite well right now, fundraiser is still going fairly strong
[12:37:56] <bshah> sebas: just came back from dentist..
[12:37:57] --> CrKit (~nekit at 85.143.20.2) has joined #plasma
[12:38:07] <bshah> will send you notes in 10-15 mins later
[12:38:16] <bshah> (it's just two liner.. but still :p)
[12:38:17] <sebas> bshah: wb! if you want to report, you can go ahead now
[12:38:31] <bshah> need to write notes well..
[12:38:57] <bshah> but, I mostly debugged why I can't mount /firmware partition of android inside the archlinux rootfs
[12:39:01] <bshah> and found issue this morning
[12:39:24] <bshah> 12:56 <bshah> turns  out it is selinux
[12:39:26] <bshah> 12:56 <bshah> it defines "context=foo" in the mount options
[12:39:28] <bshah> 12:57 <bshah> but in archlinux
[12:39:30] <bshah> 12:57 <bshah> coreutils is not compiled with selinux
[12:39:32] <bshah> 12:57 <bshah> so it fails to understand context= option
[12:39:34] <bshah> 12:58 <bshah> which is kinda stupid
[12:39:50] <bshah> and that's pretty much it from my side mostly
[12:40:01] <bshah> but I can send structured notes in bit
[12:40:36] <sebas> sure, send them to me in a query and I'll include them, then send it to the list
[12:40:39] <sebas> otherwise, meeting done!
[12:41:24] <sebas> Would be nice if we could do this a little more actively focused next time around, 35 minutes bears room for improvements... Thanks those that participated though, much appreciated!
[12:41:29] <sebas> meeting done!
[12:43:47] <sebas> librem 5 campaign is at 46.15% now, almost 700KUSD raised
[12:43:54] <-- preview (~quassel at 2407:7000:842d:4000::3) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[12:43:58] <sebas> https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
[12:44:03] <-- Delta-One (~zero at 2001:6b0:2:2801:b8b7:edf2:d580:750b) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
[12:44:45] <kbroulik> d_ed: I'll slam a "menu" button on the notifications preview to make the existence of the context menu more obvious. I'll put that in 5.11 (no new strings) since we havent figured out notification accessibility anyway
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[12:45:13] <bshah> sebas: about Plasma mobile blog, I had some more ideas about blogpost(s) which focus on "some" technical bits .. do you have some more blogposts or something in mind for promo? if so we can co-ordinate maybe?
[12:45:47] <sebas> bshah: yes, one about convergence, which is more conceptual
[12:46:13] <bshah> mostly I wanted to blog which is more like "What makes plasma mobile"
[12:46:15] <sebas> planned for tomorrow (I haven't figured out how I can show previews from my WP)
[12:46:28] <sebas> bshah: yeah, very cool! if you need proof-reading, hit me up!