Minutes Monday Plasma Hangout

[Sebastian Kügler]

Meeting minutes and log from today's weekly: accessiblity, wayland,
design, it has all the goodies.
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org
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Plasma Meeting 18 Sept 2017

Present: notmart, Sho, d_ed, sebas, jensreut, fvogt

notmart:
* At randa meeting, was mostly about accessibility
** krunner
** kirigami
** keyboard navigation in systray applet
** systemsettings: still kinda wip, big problem is QQuickWidget and keyboard focus handling
* plasma mobile:
** fixed a generic wayland bug in which the desktop window isn't always a "desktop type" surface
** fixed wonky press-and-hold drag and drop issue which lead to drags never being canceled and crashes
** fixed task manager window appearing in the task manager itself, which also fixed a crash
** progressing over the improved top draggable panel
* most of the accessibility work is about good keyboard navigation, which is always a good improvement regardless of screen readers, so for any user

Sho:
* Wayland testing/debugging for d_ed, trying to get my session to behave again
* Prepping to move the Kicker backend to plasma-desktop so Plasma Mobile can depend on it
** I want to port the homescreen to it
* QtWS coordination, another sit-down with Jens today
* Implemented text selection in the Qt Quick rewrite of Konversation (a big challenge as Qt Quick can't do text selection across multiple Text elements normally - really happy with the results, feels very natural, might blog about it)
* On vacation Tue-Fr to focus on Konversation, but around for QtWS stuff + beta bugfixing if needed

d_ed:
 - Accessibility everywhere.
 - Mostly keyboard nav, adding Accessible props.
 - WIP patch to keyboard focus panel
 - Made Orca work on wayland \o/
More importantly
 - Got lots of scaling feedback. Splitting some settings where users want different things in X and wayland.
 - Fixed an issue with scaling + cursor icon hotspots
 - Found a kwayland race that I'm currently fixing :/

sebas:
- Coordinated and got out Plasma Mobile / Purism press release, was well received, crowdfunding went from <300K to >450K over the weekend \o/
- Worked a bit on kscreen not saving the output scaling value, more work on that
- Half blog written about convergence, want to finish within the first part of this week

kbroulik:
* Fixed some bugs in FolderView, modifier drags (ie. Ctrl+Shift+drag for creating a link without popup confirmation) works now
* Investigated a crash in Qt with XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS when creating ARGB windows (e.g. tooltips in Breeze/Oxygen), patch https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/205268/ (already +2'd \o/)
* Tried to figure out why KSplash on Wayland is misplaced in multiscreen setup but couldn't figure it out. Geometry send to plasmashell surface is correct..
* Some minor startup performance improvements for Dolphin
* Some minor improvements for Kate

jensreut:
We've been talking a bit about a secondary stock theme - essentially taking a well established but "non committed" theme and then trying to get that and its cretors into Incubator. Core idea is improving another theme in tandem - while at the same time sneaking contributors into KDE proper.
We started the "great splitting of tasks" in the VDG
Fabian has as I am sure many of you know gone to town on the HIG and specifically "making the unit page make sense"
Jack (the GTK guy) is working on improving our GTK theme as usual and may have som questions about CSD's and how we should deal with them
Andrew will work on improving our mockup toolkit and Alex will help create a Kirigami one (IIRC)
We talked a bit about making certain that mockups that are just mockups are shown as clear as possible that they ARE mockups so hopefully those kinds of problems will be avoided

fvogt:
I guess I've only got to mention the bug about 4k on virtio that started appearing about a week ago or so
(https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384789)
KDE bug 384789 in KScreen (libkscreen) "Wrong screen size reported with qemu and virtio" [normal,] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384789



The Log:

[12:04:37] <sebas> Meeting indeed!
[12:04:45] <sebas> so, notmart, Sho_, d_ed, jensreut?
[12:04:48] --> Martchus (~martchus at dslb-178-002-246-109.178.002.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined #plasma
[12:04:54] <sebas> kbroulik of course
[12:04:56] <Sho_> yep i'm here
[12:05:06] <sebas> notmart to start!
[12:05:19] <notmart> ok
[12:05:20] <d_ed> o/
[12:05:24] <sebas> \o
[12:05:26] <d_ed> and fvogt_vps ^
[12:05:33] <sebas> hey fvogt_vps!
[12:05:57] <Sho_> hello my favorite software devs
[12:06:21] <notmart> ok, kinda finished the list
[12:06:24] <notmart> * At randa meeting, was mostly about accessibility
[12:06:25] <notmart> ** krunner
[12:06:27] <notmart> ** kirigami
[12:06:28] <notmart> ** keyboard navigation in systray applet
[12:06:30] <notmart> ** systemsettings: still kinda wip, big problem is QQuickWidget and keyboard focus handling
[12:06:31] <notmart> * plasma mobile:
[12:06:33] <notmart> ** fixed a generic wayland bug in which the desktop window isn't always a "desktop type" surface
[12:06:34] <notmart> ** fixed wonky press-and-hold drag and drop issue which lead to drags never being canceled and crashes
[12:06:36] <notmart> ** fixed task manager window appearing in the task manager itself, which also fixed a crash
[12:06:37] <notmart> ** progressing over the improved top draggable panel
[12:07:03] --> cotko (~ahmed at 188-230-161-23.dynamic.t-2.net) has joined #plasma
[12:07:05] <notmart> * most of the accessibility work is about good keyboard navigation, which is always a good improvement regardless of screen readers, so for any user
[12:07:28] <Sho_> how was "[19:06] <notmart> ** fixed task manager window appearing in the task manager itself, which also fixed a crash" fixed? didn't see this around
[12:07:48] <notmart> Sho_: in the plasma mobile task manager, not the normal taskbar
[12:08:05] <Sho_> ah
[12:08:09] <notmart> basically was the fullscreen window it appears in to not have skip_taskbar correctly set on wayland
[12:08:09] <Sho_> missed the heading
[12:08:17] <Sho_> ok
[12:08:33] <notmart> for the usual (doh, now surfaces are deleted every time qt 5.8 gotcha)
[12:09:18] <jensreut> (sry for late toilet rush)
[12:09:46] <sebas> haha
[12:09:50] <sebas> okay, Sho_'s turn
[12:10:16] <Sho_> * Wayland testing/debugging for d_ed, trying to get my session to behave again
[12:10:17] <-> toscalix_ is now known as toscalix
[12:10:17] <Sho_> * Prepping to move the Kicker backend to plasma-desktop so Plasma Mobile can depend on it
[12:10:19] <Sho_> ** I want to port the homescreen to it
[12:10:20] <Sho_> * QtWS coordination, another sit-down with Jens today
[12:10:22] <Sho_> * Implemented text selection in the Qt Quick rewrite of Konversation (a big challenge as Qt Quick can't do text selection across multiple Text elements normally - really happy with the results, feels very natural, might blog about it)
[12:10:23] <Sho_> * On vacation Tue-Fr to focus on Konversation, but around for QtWS stuff + beta bugfixing if needed
[12:10:32] <kbroulik> kicker backend is in plama-desktop no?
[12:10:41] <Sho_> I meant plasma-workspace, typo
[12:10:43] <Sho_> :)
[12:10:43] <kbroulik> ah
[12:10:48] <kbroulik> now makes sense :)
[12:11:00] <kbroulik> looking forward to your text selection stuff
[12:11:14] <Sho_> It's funny, Android Oreo has homescreen pinning of contacts
[12:11:19] <Sho_> and it looks exactly like Kicker's does
[12:11:26] <Sho_> round avatar cutout with presence icon overlay
[12:11:37] <Sho_> if the homescreen uses Kicker it gets that for free already
[12:11:46] <jensreut> Material design, always stealing my stuff
[12:12:06] <Sho_> kbroulik: https://cgit.kde.org/konversation.git/commit/?h=wip/qtquick&id=af844dfb36a6048200666b58cd6f94983497f6d1
[12:12:12] <Sho_> here is more about how text selection now works
[12:12:13] <notmart> well, even the post-pixel homescreeen is pretty much the one of plasma mobile
[12:12:30] <sebas> Sho_: coolio
[12:12:31] <notmart> the favorites bar that gets dragged up to open the app grid
[12:12:33] <Sho_> and that's it from me then
[12:12:55] <sebas> (text selection, that's nasty shit, I recall working on that two years ago for the paste/copy/cut popups in touch for active)
[12:13:01] <-- thymbahutymba (~quassel at host204-247-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:13:12] --> thymbahutymba (~quassel at host204-247-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #plasma
[12:13:55] <sebas> d_ed is next up
[12:14:06] <notmart> sebas: then rejoy, those from active are still used for QQC1 based controls, we'll have to redo it all for the QQC2 based controls now :p
[12:14:26] <sebas> gheghe urghs
[12:14:29] <d_ed>  - Accessibility everywhere.
[12:14:29] <Sho_> yep, it already has touch-based selection now too
[12:14:31] <d_ed>  - Mostly keyboard nav, adding Accessible props.
[12:14:32] <d_ed>  - WIP patch to keyboard focus panel
[12:14:33] <d_ed>  - Made Orca work on wayland \o/
[12:14:40] <Sho_> you can long-press a message to engage selection mode, then tap to select/deselect more
[12:14:52] <Sho_> i'm working on the desktop ver, but always keeping the mobile one in mind
[12:14:55] <d_ed> More importantly
[12:14:56] <d_ed>  - Got lots of scaling feedback. Splitting some settings where users want different things in X and wayland.
[12:14:57] <d_ed>  - Fixed an issue with scaling + cursor icon hotspots
[12:14:59] <d_ed>  - Found a kwayland race that I'm currently fixing :/
[12:15:27] <kbroulik> if it werent for that stupid qtwayland issue I'm having when closing opengl windows, I could actually use Wayland :(
[12:15:32] <Sho_> all the accessibility stuff from Randa is mighty impressive
[12:15:36] <sebas> *hat-tip* to all the accessibility work you guys did in Randa btw!
[12:15:39] <Sho_> you guys had such a codeing-productive sprint
[12:15:41] <sebas> with sho
[12:16:08] <d_ed> kbroulik: did you test Fabian's patch?
[12:16:13] <kbroulik> I did not yet
[12:16:13] <d_ed> (I haven't' yet)
[12:16:16] <kbroulik> :D
[12:16:20] <d_ed> ok, we should
[12:16:29] -*- d_ed makes a TODO to test
[12:16:54] <notmart> eh, was really important that we had fregl there which worked on the Qt part of it, having the Qt guy in the room that works on the thing you are trying to work with makes all the difference
[12:17:12] <sebas> I can imagine, also fregl is awesome
[12:17:15] <kbroulik> indeed
[12:17:43] <notmart> which, we should try do do more with other parts of qt as well which are less "reachable" at the moment (controls, qtwayland...)
[12:17:58] <notmart> yep, he is awesome indeed
[12:18:51] <sebas> agree
[12:19:06] --> salamanderrake (~quassel at 2605:a000:122a:32:2c90:c748:ab7:3396) has joined #plasma
[12:19:13] <d_ed> that was it from me
[12:19:18] <sebas> fvogt_vps: you there?
[12:19:29] <sebas> otherwise, it's my turn
[12:19:42] <sebas> - Coordinated and got out Plasma Mobile / Purism press release, was well received, crowdfunding went from <300K to >450K over the weekend \o/
[12:19:42] <sebas> - Worked a bit on kscreen not saving the output scaling value, more work on that
[12:19:42] <sebas> - Half blog written about convergence, want to finish within the first part of this week
[12:19:57] <bcooksley> d_ed: if you could respond regarding Johan please that would be appreciated
[12:20:17] <-- Martchus (~martchus at dslb-178-002-246-109.178.002.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[12:20:24] <d_ed> bcooksley: ack
[12:21:57] <sebas> Alright, meeting closed! Thanks everybody! I'll send the minutes and log to the list shortly...
[12:22:01] <sebas> happy hacking!
[12:22:41] <kbroulik> you forgot me :0
[12:22:47] <sebas> ooops ... sorry kbour
[12:22:51] <kbroulik> * Fixed some bugs in FolderView, modifier drags (ie. Ctrl+Shift+drag for creating a link without popup confirmation) works now
[12:22:55] <kbroulik> * Investigated a crash in Qt with XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS when creating ARGB windows (e.g. tooltips in Breeze/Oxygen), patch https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/205268/ (already +2'd \o/)
[12:23:02] <kbroulik> * Tried to figure out why KSplash on Wayland is misplaced in multiscreen setup but couldn't figure it out. Geometry send to plasmashell surface is correct..
[12:23:11] <kbroulik> * Some minor startup performance improvements for Dolphin
[12:23:14] <kbroulik> * Some minor improvements for Kate
[12:23:24] <kbroulik> that's it
[12:23:25] <sebas> kbroulik... it's probably because we hate you! ;)
[12:23:29] <kbroulik> :D
[12:23:37] <jensreut> I have some VDG stuff to report on too
[12:23:44] <sebas> aah! go ahead jensreut
[12:23:45] <-> tosky is now known as tosky_
[12:23:53] <jensreut> We've been talking a bit about a secondary stock theme - essentially taking a well established but "non committed" theme and then trying to get that and its cretors into Incubator. Core idea is improving another theme in tandem - while at the same time sneaking contributors into KDE proper.
[12:23:55] <jensreut> We started the "great splitting of tasks" in the VDG
[12:23:56] <jensreut> Fabian has as I am sure many of you know gone to town on the HIG and specifically "making the unit page make sense"
[12:23:58] <jensreut> Jack (the GTK guy) is working on improving our GTK theme as usual and may have som questions about CSD's and how we should deal with them
[12:23:59] <jensreut> Andrew will work on improving our mockup toolkit and Alex will help create a Kirigami one (IIRC)
[12:24:01] <jensreut> We talked a bit about making certain that mockups that are just mockups are shown as clear as possible that they ARE mockups so hopefully those kinds of problems will be avoided
[12:24:11] <jensreut> Also I have a question does anyone know who the author of the color KCM is?
[12:24:25] <-> tosky_ is now known as tosky
[12:24:28] <jensreut> (we needs that person to get a Breeze GTK that automatically follows the color theme)
[12:24:45] <jensreut> (and when we have that we are essentially the coolest desktop in town)
[12:24:47] <kbroulik> jensreut: dunno, according to git log Olivier Churlaud has most commits in there
[12:24:48] <jensreut> *koolest
[12:25:05] <jensreut> kbroulik: poor bastard he keeps running into us over and over :)
[12:25:22] <jensreut> I am done sebas sry for being late
[12:25:49] <sebas> no worries
[12:25:57] <sebas> sorry for being confused :)
[12:26:08] <jensreut> :)
[12:26:17] --> fvogt (~fabian at p5490D7DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #plasma
[12:27:12] <sebas> fvogt: hey!
[12:27:14] <bcooksley> memory says cfeck is one of the folks behind the colour schemes stuff
[12:27:22] <sebas> anything to report for the plasma meeting?
[12:27:26] <sebas> we're almost done / done
[12:27:46] <bcooksley> jensreut: have you talked with Ken lately?
[12:27:50] -*- fvogt just started his wakeup procedure
[12:28:06] <jensreut> bcooksley: yes
[12:28:14] <fvogt> I guess I've only got to mention the bug about 4k on virtio that started appearing about a week ago or so
[12:28:20] <bcooksley> jensreut: please remind him i'm waiting on tickets for his Wordpress stuff
[12:28:20] <fvogt> (https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384789)
[12:28:21] <sKreamer> KDE bug 384789 in KScreen (libkscreen) "Wrong screen size reported with qemu and virtio" [normal,] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384789
[12:28:29] <jensreut> bcooksley: will do
[12:29:03] <d_ed> I think the bug has always existed, I've just made a change that turns the pre-existing bug into a problem
[12:29:24] <d_ed> (which obviously still needs fixing)
[12:29:29] <fvogt> That might be true - I do wonder why there is such a difference between the actual resolution and the reported one
[12:29:51] <sebas> okay, let's close the meeting though, thanks all for participating! :*
[12:31:01] <jensreut> thanks for hosting