Review Request 124151: Add a default icon to notifications popup

Tue Jun 23 16:22:20 UTC 2015

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Xen <list at xenhideout.nl> wrote:

>
>  >>* On June 23, 2015, 10:40 a.m., Kai Uwe Broulik wrote:
> *>>* > I actually really like it, perhaps we should make KDialog passive popup not set an icon by default now
> *>> >>* Philipp A. wrote:
> *>>*     i also like the no-icon no-space version. why add something that just takes up unnecessary space and has no informational value?
> *
> > I prefer the no-icon version as well. I don't think the visual inconsistency is a problem. On the
> > contrary, I think reducing the uniformity may somewhat reduce strain when scanning notifications
> > since they become more individualized landmarks in the stack. It also makes the presence of icons in
> > the notifications that do sport them feel more purposeful, making it more likely to pay attention to
> > icons and getting something out of it instead of getting trained to ignore them and look at the only
> > reliably disambiguifying content (the text). This way, you look straight at the text - the only
> > meaningful content, without having to skip over the icon.
>
> > - Eike
>
>
> If I may be allowed to add some opinion here, being just a bystander...
>
> Being trained to ignore a default icon is more like an automatism and it
> serves in means of recognition. That doesn't mean you have to pay visual
> attention to the other icons or that visual (conscious) attention would be
> a good thing. Ideally it becomes a subconscious process anyway.
>
> Getting a differing spacing (left-side indentation) for no-icon and
> do-icon introduces more fatigue. That means perusing the notification stack
> becomes a more tiring thing. The informational value of the icons or of
> having no icon doesn't add anything much in terms of "information intake"
> and most of the notifications...
>
> Sorry to say so, but my own personal KDE experience has been that there
> are way many notifications and most of them don't serve a good purpose and
> clearing the notifcation stack becomes a chore. E.g. Clementine (I don't
> use Amarok) sends a play-event/notification to the stack on every item
> played. It is pretty senseless to be notified about new songs in a way that
> long surpasses what the song is doing. A temporary song, a temporary item,
> would better have a temporary notification (such as the on-screen popup
> that Amarok does or used to do and that Clementine perhaps does also (don't
> remember)). Helpful would be a vertical stack displayed on-screen where
> each item has a timer before it disappears and clears the stack (or reduces
> the stack size (vertically, the number of items present on the screen) and
> perhaps in conjunction with a permanent history thing. I feel a large
> amount of time (relatively speaking) is being dedicated by the user in
> clearing that stack. It is one of my gripes in KDE.
>

This exact issue is addressed in Plasma 5 - Clementine, Amarok and Spotify
by default get only
one single notification popup which is not stored in history. So if you
quickly switch songs and/or
change states of the playback, there will always be only one popup with
always the latest data
(because the previous data is obsolete by then anyway). Any other
application can be added
to the list by adding it to a config file (not ideal but also not meant to
be a public configuration
at this point).

> Applications that don't set an icon is also something that ..how to say.
> It could be dissuaded and not designed around. I think it would be a bad
> thing if your direction would be about "not trying to get a consistent
> look" but perhaps that is irrelevant as each author can decide by
> him/herself. I just feel a common default icon would be a boon in terms of
> looks and the reducement of visual fatigue as the user only has to look in
> a default location for all text (visually space/oriented) and ease of
> repetition/recognition is a good thing.
>

The ease of repetition and recognition was what I had in mind with the
first patch, yes.

> Lately visual interface designers have for mostly political reasons I
> believe done away with the "everything would preferably be in a default
> location" concept that has long been the way of doing menus etcetera. If
> you can find something blindly, that increases the speed of your operation
> of the machine. But recently (e.g. in Windows start menu etc.) (and the
> Unity Dock, etc.) *searching* has become a more apt way to do things. In
> Windows it is so bad that without searching, you can't even find anything.
> E.g. the "configuration screen" of Windows 7 and 8 (you can even barely
> find it in Windows 10) has been reorganized to the extent that it is very
> fatigueing to read any of the text (because it is all very long) and the
> only way to get anywhere is usually to search.
>
> By contrast the KDE menu (Kicker?) is still very doable although it is not
> as fast as the Windows XP menu used to be. Searching is still often an apt
> way to get somewhere (especially if you don't know where to look) but at
> least the results are fast and pleasantly oriented. A scrolling
> side-to-side menu is not really a good way to get anywhere (repeatedly)
> because every click is a separate action that requires wait-time before you
> can do the next move. In contrast, a cascading/unfolding menu is very rapid
> because it is like "one motion" to get anywhere.
>
> But search always requires mental attention which introduces fatigue and
> lowers the speed. Searching is never a trained thing. Which is why, of
> course, you can add stuff to Favourites. But there's not enough space in
> the favourites to include everything you want. Which means you get back to
> clicking on desktop-icons, a thing the menu tries to avoid or supersede!!
> Personally I know no way to organize my favourite applications and I resort
> to desktop icons and direct krunner activity.
>
> But, to recap, familiarity is important, predictability is important,
> efficiency is really all that matters, and informational value of icons is
> not really all that important (as long as they look good and are
> recognisable) (and distinguisable) as it is a subconscious process anyway.
> So having a default icon does not really take away from the recognition of
> the other icons, but I deally I would ensure that very few default icons
> remain anyway. The default icon could also better be round or square.
> Anyway, these are just my thoughts.
>

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I tend to agree with you but I'll leave
the final word on this
particular issue to our Visual Design Group.

Cheers
-- 
Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer
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