Breadcrumbs in Kickoff

[Hans Chen]

Xavier, while I also want the back button back, it seems to me that you
miss several important points:

As for the notion that most prominent KDE apps don't possess back buttons,
> there are actually quite a few examples, such as Konqueror/Rekonq, the
> "System Settings" application, and Dolphin.
>

There are very few cases with a back button like the one in Kickoff (I can
only think of QuickAccess). Personally I think it could have a place in
more widgets though.

Dolphin arguably also has redundancy, as it possesses both breadcrumb
> navigation and a back button.
>

As previously explained, the back button in Dolphin doesn't serve the same
purpose as the breadcrumbs. Redundancy would be to have both the
breadcrumbs and the "Up" button by default, which it doesn't have.

Martin, how can you claim to care about the opinions of KDE's userbase,
> when you refuse to consider the possiblity that many of KDE's users may
> want this feature?
>

I think you missed the "try to rally" part.

Why would you make it read-only if you care about the community's opinion?
>

The navigation in Kickoff has received many complaints since it was
introduced. People found it slow to navigate, couldn't see which level they
were at etc. Breadcrumbs solve some of these issues.

In fact, it should be obvious that users care about the back button, given
> that I, a mere user, have spent close to 2 months pursuing this issue, and,
> consequently, have joined this mailing list.  In the past, have you
> encountered such ire?  Such dedication to a single feature?
>

One example doesn't say very much. I'm sure you can find more than one
dedicated user who wants the classic menu to be the default, but that
doesn't mean that it should be.

In short:
It seems clear that the developers aren't interested in adding the back
button back. Therefore I suggest that we follow their suggestion, i.e.,
someone creating an alternative Kickoff with the back button (having it as
an additional option is just silly in my opinion). If it becomes very
popular, the developers might reconsider. Or not.

I also suggest that someone tries to find the original usability study
performed by openSUSE(?) when creating Kickoff. If I remember correctly the
back button, being on the left edge where it's easy to hit, was one of the
important parts of the application launcher. Maybe we could get an opinion
from one of the usability experts involved with the original concept.

As for me, I personally don't use Kickoff much, so I don't care enough to
spend any significant time on the issue. But as said I would prefer a back
button.

Hans

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 17:59, Xavier Sythe <me at sythe.me> wrote:

> Alexey made several valid points.
>
> It's not a question of whether or not to "add" a back button, it's a
> question of whether or not to restore it.
>
> If it's a question of redundancy, one might argue that the new breadcrumb
> navigation could be removed in favour of the classic back button.
>
> After all, most of the sub-categories are less than one level deep.
>
> As for the notion that most prominent KDE apps don't possess back buttons,
> there are actually quite a few examples, such as Konqueror/Rekonq, the
> "System Settings" application, and Dolphin.
> Dolphin arguably also has redundancy, as it possesses both breadcrumb
> navigation and a back button.
>
> If both Aaron and Martin claim to want consistency, why are they going
> against the paradigms implemented in Dolphin, namely BOTH the back button
> and breadcrumb navigation.
>
> "(Btw. don't even try to
> rally now that users post to the bug report. If that is going to happen I
> will
> make sure that the bug gets made read only)."
>
> Martin, how can you claim to care about the opinions of KDE's userbase,
> when you refuse to consider the possiblity that many of KDE's users may
> want this feature?
>
> Why would you make it read-only if you care about the community's opinion?
>
> You don't have any statistics invalidating my statements.
>
> Have KDE users requested the removal of the back button?
> No.
>
> Have KDE users requested the reinstatement of the back button?
> Yes.
>
> Do we care about KDE's users?
> Yes.
>
> So, why are we removing a feature?  A feature that few, perhaps none of
> the users have complained about.
>
>
> The fact that any users made the effort to not only register to the issue
> tracker, but also find the specific issue and post to it, demonstrates
> that, in fact, more users want the back button, than those that would ask
> for its removal.
>
> In fact, it should be obvious that users care about the back button, given
> that I, a mere user, have spent close to 2 months pursuing this issue, and,
> consequently, have joined this mailing list.  In the past, have you
> encountered such ire?  Such dedication to a single feature?
>
> Regardless of whether the back button is reinstated, I will support adding
> the mouse's back button as a way to go back.  The back button is a staple
> of modern UI, featured prominently in all file/web browsers.
>
>
> Xavier Sythe
>
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>
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