A usable plasma desktop

[Aaron J. Seigo]

On Sunday 14 December 2008, Steven wrote:
> I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. The file structure I'm proposing would be
> completely abstract, and not really based on folders. Aaron's kind and
> concise suggestion that nepomuk is a better candidate seems like a better
> idea.
>
> However, there still is the problem that many applications put downloads in
> the Desktop folder by default.

which applications? we know about Firefox. which others?

> so people end up losing their downloads. Until other programs stop doing
> this, I think perhaps that somehow automatically moving them to the
> downloads folder, which could then optionally be shown on the destop as a
> folder view might solve this. I'm not sure how it would be implemented.

i'm honestly not sure a folderview is the best we could do for downloads. 
describing the use cases/scenarios is probably a good starting point.

what do people download?
where do they download from?
what do they want to do with the downloads?

downloading something is not the end of the interaction sequence, it's really 
the first step in it. the folderview concept is a passive one ("here's your 
files, enjoy..") while a downloads area implies some sort of activity.

> The other compatibility problem that I see is that, currently, the only way
> for Plasma to display what is on, for example, a Nautilus desktop is to
> have a folder view showing this. And a nautilus desktop can't show the
> files or launchers on a plasma desktop because plasma rightly replaces the
> desktop folder metaphor with one allowing the management of not only files,
> but contacts, RSS feeds, time, devices, and anything else you can think of,
> as relevant to you're current activity. These two concepts are completely
> different, but they overlap in parts, and its in this overlap that I think
> there needs to be more compatibility in order to aid migration.

nautilus actually paints the desktop itself iirc, much as kfm did in kde1. 
that not withstanding, migrating can/should really be a one time operation. 
this actually sounds like a candidate for the store/load layouts feature 
(4.3). that way people can retrieve their previous working situation without:

* plasma having any built in knowledge of this (that we'll then have to cary 
forward with us for any # of years)

* we wouldn't have a specific target (e.g. Nautilus desktops) to the exclusion 
of other possible targets

* they can "roll up" the layout when they are done with it

> Aaron obviously scoffs at my suggestion.

due it being ill-formed, yes.

> As for a shortcuts plasmoid, this is exactly what I don't want, because its
> no better than the desktop-as-a-folder metaphor. I thought that maybe the
> folder view could be extended to show files grouped more abstractly than by
...
> better handled with a nepomuk plasmoid. I'm not sure how it would work in
> this case, but nepomuk does seem to offer the features needed to create
> this.

a folderview can show the results from a nepomukquery:/ url. 

> And saying this list isn't for users is like saying cars aren't for
..
> That's what it means to be a community project. People tend to forget that.

and when people do what you described, it works out perfectly.

to extend the analogy, the model is not that any driver can walk in, interupt 
the other driver-engineers making plans and scribble their own thoughts on the 
various chalk boards beign used and then leave as the driver-engineers stare 
mouth agape wondering why this person was talking about shocks needed to carry 
loads in excess of 5 tonnes when they are building a sports car .. 

after this is repeated N times by N different people. eventually the driver-
engineers throw up their hands saying, quite rightly, "i can't get anything 
done in here!"

if you want to be a driver-engineer, start with questions and follow up with 
contributions. there is a work ethic here: making diatribes on what the future 
should be is a privelege earned through demonstrable work. the primary reasons 
behind that are:

* it's doesn't take much effort (relatively) to go on and on about $TOPIC, so 
lots of people do that without ever actually intending to anything more than 
that. to protect against floods of such drive-by-designing, there are practical 
qualifications that need to be met first before one gets taken seriously. this 
is what is meant by "meritocracy", of course.

* it's nearly impossible to make sensible statements without understanding the 
mechanisms of things. this has nothing to do with one's intelligence or other 
abilities; quite simply, without context it's almost impossible to have 
reasoned discussions, and there aren't many other places to get context for 
plasma. unlike, say, a word processor of which there are many other examples 
out there to have cut one's teeth on.

-- 
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Software

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