[Panel-devel] ATi- Plasma- support

Thu Aug 18 06:28:29 CEST 2005

matt, 

before i start, I call "Ryska posten"/"Chinese telephone"/or what ever
it is called in your country!

This all seems to have started with "here's a thing you could throw at
them (to stir some 'fire' in the conversation)" ... where I gave Aaron
my, MY, personal option on the matter. And "put my money where
my mouth was" behind my opinion.

He's a big boy, and the person who's going to be making the decission(s)
here - and just because I have/gave my opinion doesn't equal he'll take it!

I just felt to tell hiim my option, how I see it from _my_ POV!   *don't know
how much more I can stress that out!*

---

Now, onto some mega missconcetions you've made!

>why? why should we even care? Why should we even be worrying about catering 
>our code to one specific chipset or vendor?

It's not what I'm/was saying at all! - the Plasma code ough to be made platform indepented (from myPOV!)

What I was reffering to, was the _drivers_ - they need to be the best they can be, and that's the 
thing that needs to be 'cipset or vendor' specifyc!  And they need to be open for us (the F/OSS community)
to tweak the most out of the cards ... and not have to allways go and ask ATI if they wouldn't do this or that ... 
everytime we think of something  - but instead just have have the liberty to go and try out new ideas when
we seem fit ... with out the hassle / politics that is involved with binary drivers!

Q is, are "we" politicians or developers? .... I know I'm not a politician!

But sure, if you want to go the 'politics' route, be my guest. Tough it won't change my option that it's a bad call.

And as an indivudial I'm entiled to my own option - even if the whole world is against it!     So plz, leave it be....

>> So if it's anybody that will loose, in the end, it will be them.  Be
>> confident of that! - even if they'd try to pull that "card" you've just
>> said.
>>
>
>no, it will be our users.
>

I clearly don't agree - and as we are both of diff. opinion - only time will tell whom's right and wrong.

so lets time cast the vote ...

>I think you're missing the point. This is not a cutthroat, grab 'em by the 
>balls, make it hurt for them business. Hell, it's not even a business!

again, you missed the point - what i said could have been said in:

  and we'll "have the upper hand"

but I wanted to be 'dramatic' ... and went with an other option...

>you're going to pay for shipping right? Would you like my address so you can 
>ship me your notebook now? :)

yes, and patience little grasshopper!

you're juming way to early - 1st Aaron has to make up his mind, and IF he chooses
to follow my opinion - only then will the bet be on -  Until then, nothings on!

And finally, in case I'd loose - it would be Aaron who would get the notebook - not you 
or anybody else :-P

>Then why do I feel that your intentions are not the same? 

Maybe, because you can't grasp them?  

>I think you're jumping to conclusions.

Am I, or isn't it you who are?

cheers.

PS. I choose not to comment on the rest - as I think I've made my myself clear.

---
Chinese Telephone,
Ryska Posten == Russian Mail ... is a game one played as a child,
where a bunch of kids gathered in a big circle. Randomly one was
choosen to think of a word, and whisper *that_word to the person
on either his left xor right side. Whisper in the sense that only that 
person whom was supposed to hear heared. .... and then next 
person whispered it to the next one and so forth and so on...
 And then in the end, the choosen one had to affirm if what he heared
from the last one, was the word s/he whispered to start with.

Why the name? ... well, since the word allways [0] came out wrong,
it is a catchy pun aimed toward how we (as children)  envisioned that 
the postal-system worked in russia.

In with something, out with something else :-)

---

On Thursday 18 August 2005 05.41, Matt Rogers wrote:
> On Wednesday 17 August 2005 21:49, danalien wrote:
> > On Thursday 18 August 2005 04.01, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 17 August 2005 06:31, danalien wrote:
> > > > On Thursday 18 August 2005 02.11, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday 17 August 2005 03:40, danalien wrote:
> > > >
> > > > here's a thing you could throw at them (to stirr some 'fire' in the
> > > > conversation).
> > > >
> > > > if ATI guy goes : No we won't fully F/OSS the drivers...
> > >
> > > would i like to see open source drivers? you bet! bu ti would expect that
> > > ATi and nVidia's response to your approach would simply be "oh. ok. well,
> > > that's unfortunate. bye!" and then our users would still be stuck with
> > > closed source drivers AND not have the best experience possible with
> > > plasma. lose, lose.
> >
> > Nope you've got it all backwards! :-)
> >
> > Yes, what you said, can be true, they could do just that. But then it'll be
> > up to us to go and show them what amazing things we can do with XGI's and
> > VIA's products!
> >
> 
> why? why should we even care? Why should we even be worrying about catering 
> our code to one specific chipset or vendor?
> 
> > So if it's anybody that will loose, in the end, it will be them.  Be
> > confident of that! - even if they'd try to pull that "card" you've just
> > said.
> >
> 
> no, it will be our users.
> 
> > See it this way, if we can make Plasma 'sing' on XGI & VIA ... we'll "have
> > them by the ballz", so to speak =D ... as they'll be threaded of the
> > competition, it the sense that here's XGI/VIA that offer products with less
> > blazzing-speed, but still manages to 'sing' someting as amazing as Plasma
> > ... and comes at an affordable prize ... and I can garantee you that
> > somewhere down the line they hear of themselfs again, when they'll feel
> > that their "profit margins" will/would be at the stake!     (exact time is
> > hard to predict, but somewhere down the road, they'll definitely be back -
> > IF we'll make Plasma 'Sing' on XGI/VIA)
> >
> 
> I think you're missing the point. This is not a cutthroat, grab 'em by the 
> balls, make it hurt for them business. Hell, it's not even a business!
> 
> > If not, then you can have my notebook (an Acer 1300xv) ) - yeah, I'll
> > gladly "put my money where my mouth is" :-)
> >
> >
> 
> you're going to pay for shipping right? Would you like my address so you can 
> ship me your notebook now? :)
> 
> > As I've said to 'Wade Olson' - this is "the business tango".
> >
> > > i'd like to actually have a relationship with these people so that maybe
> > > our users can have better graphics support on the desktop. and that's
> > > really the full extent of my agenda. i think that should be the full
> > > extent of the plasma agenda as well.
> >
> > I know what you mean, and my intentions are exatly the same .... but it
> > seems that developers don't really know "the business tango" all to well,
> > and they behave like n3wbi3 music artist that will sign over their rights
> > to the 1st person commin' knocking on the door - from the excitemet.
> >
> 
> Then why do I feel that your intentions are not the same? So far, the only 
> thing we've seen out of this is that ATI has mentioned wanting to work with 
> the Plasma developers. They didn't say how, they didn't say why, and we don't 
> even know what it involves at this point in time. I think you're jumping to 
> conclusions.
> 
> > And that's exactly not how real business men do business!
> >
> > Their calm, rational, know what they want, and know how to "tango" when
> > it's needed. :)
> >
> >
> > cheers.
> >
> >
> > PS. I got a degree in Business, so I feel more then confident in what I've
> > said. [if you'd like proof I can bring it with me to aKademy :)]
> 
> Except what you describe is not the way open source works in general. You 
> can't just graft traditional business techniques on to open source. If that 
> actually happened, we wouldn't be getting emails from ATI, because they 
> wouldn't care about open source because it wouldn't help their bottom line.
> 
> I would suggest that you need to re-examine the situation here. I agree that 
> your original question about finding out what 'want to work with the plasma 
> team' entail is a good question. However, since you don't have all the 
> information, you're not qualified (just like i'm not qualified) to rush out 
> and apply a bunch of "business 101" to the situation.

-- 

//   with regards
//   UID ::  panel-devel  ::  <${gofigurewhatmyemailis}@datormaffian.com>

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