[Marble-devel] Fwd: Re: [kde-edu]: Marble 0.5: The Road ahead

Torsten Rahn torsten.rahn at credativ.de
Mon Aug 20 16:10:20 CEST 2007 

Hi Andrew,

Thanks again for your kind and helpful comments (I understand they are 
well-meant). 

> As far as "pretty little code" - I don't think LOC really account for
> quality. 

No doubts about that. I didn't question the code quality of GeoClue. I just 
stated that both projects are at a pretty early stage.

> From my point of view, Marble has a different primary purpose:
> visualization of geography and geographic data. 

Yes, given that Marble is meant to provide a desktop framework for geo stuff 
(for KDE4 / 4.1) we focussed on the viewer first as this is the most visbile 
part for the user. Now it all depends on whether this focus will just remain 
on this part of the framework (in which case using GeoClue in the future 
would be an option) or whether we'd consider it more convenient for us to 
implement the location services on our own (which we are not too far away 
from).

> GeoClue is meant to be a system service for providing location. 

.... and so far has mostly focussed on mobile devices (as that part of the 
framework _is_ a lot more interesting for mobile devices to have, just like 
the map widget is a lot more interesting to have for the desktop computer.)

> GeoClue has a stable set of D-BUS interfaces from Backends to GeoClue
> Master, and from Master to Client applications (like Marble could be).
> I believe this is in the process of being documented by the Google SoC
> student - now that the implementation is finished and working for the
> current version.

Yes, and I'd be very interested in getting a DBUS API which is common between 
both implemented into Marble.

> Besides, I'm a Mac desktop user, so I'm not beholden to KDE or GNOME
> 'camps'. :)

Ohhh, that doesn't save you from getting involved! ;-))) Just wait for KDE 4 
arriving on your Mac!  *g*

Best Wishes,

Torsten

> > > The point being, instead of maintaining GPS, IP, and implementing
> > > numerous other geolocation methods - it may be worthwhile to see about
> > > using GeoClue - or at least weighing in about what you would like to
> > > see in it to make it useful to Marble.
> >
> > At the current early stage of both projects I don't think it's necessary
> > (at least not for 0.5 and 0.6 to decide on the backend). I don't exclude
> > that we might use GeoClue later on but until stuff has matured I think we
> > can live with friendly co-opetition.
> >
> > Torsten
> >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > > > thats it from me
> > > > > Andrew Manson
> > > > >
> > > > > On 20/08/07, Torsten Rahn <torsten.rahn at credativ.de> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now that we (finally!) got Marble 0.4 out of the door, I'd like
> > > > > > to offer my
> > > > > > thoughts on what features should be part of the Marble 0.5
> > > > > > release:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In my opinion Marble 0.5 should emphasize the work of the Google
> > > > > > Summer of Code students. All features need to get finished for
> > > > > > the public (So the features need to look finished and well
> > > > > > integrated into the user interface,
> > > > > > work as expected and should be easy to use).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So to get into details:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * GPS/GPX support: Not too much left as far as I can tell.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Make "File View" only appear if a document has been opened and
> > > > > > further fix
> > > > > > the UI.
> > > > > > - Do further tests for GPX file format compliance
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Andrew: Anything I forgot?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * KML Support:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From what I have seen the following essential features on Murad's
> > > > > > kml-tasks
> > > > > > list haven't been implemented yet (correct me if I'm wrong):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Show list view on the left that indicates opened kml/gpx
> > > > > > files. List view
> > > > > > should only appear if there are more than one opened file:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is partially done already:
> > > > > > - The "File View" has already been integrated by Andrew for GPX.
> > > > > > We need to
> > > > > > add KML support to it now as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. Initial support of KML style objects (icon style, label style)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The latter is rather unfortunate but I think we can live without
> > > > > > it for the
> > > > > > 0.5 release.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are two more show stoppers for 0.5 which are not on the
> > > > > > kml-tasks list:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. Translation of KML files which is pretty much needed for KDE
> > > > > > 4. The idea to
> > > > > > solve this problem was to use Wikipedia's data as an online
> > > > > > download and get
> > > > > > their individual language data of the cities for translation. So
> > > > > > a user who
> > > > > > is from spain would have a database of cities downloaded in the
> > > > > > background which is compiled from the city data from
> > > > > > http://es.wikipedia.org/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/. That
> > > > > > means: http://en.wikipedia.org/ has the largest amount of cities
> > > > > > among all languages (about 160.000) The data base compiled for
> > > > > > spanish would contain those city names from en.wikipedia.org with
> > > > > > the ones that also exist in http://es.wikipedia.org/ replacing
> > > > > > the entries from http://en.wikipedia.org/ to make sure that they
> > > > > > get properly translated. This is just the rough idea.
> > > > > > I'll take care of compiling the data needed (with input from Tim
> > > > > > Alder from
> > > > > > Wikipedia).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4. Country support: For initial very basic country support it
> > > > > > would be nice if
> > > > > > we'd just add countries as "invisible" placemarks (i.e.
> > > > > > placemarks with no symbols). Problems:
> > > > > > - Where do we take the country data from (needs to have a Debian
> > > > > > compliant license)? This isn't too hard to solve though.
> > > > > > - The label for the country names needs to be specially aligned
> > > > > > and layouted
> > > > > > to make it look like a country name. So in opposite to real
> > > > > > placemarks there
> > > > > > will be only a single place tested (instead of 4), the label will
> > > > > > have a larger font, will be center justified and will probably be
> > > > > > displayed semi-transparent.
> > > > > > We need to adjust PlaceMarkPainter to either process the
> > > > > > countries as a different "layer" that gets rendered before the
> > > > > > city data (seperate KMLDocument). Or we need to change it to
> > > > > > display city data and country data
> > > > > > from a single KMLDocument (I'd rather prefer the further).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Later on (for 0.6) this feature will get extended to make
> > > > > > countries to get "area support" (so the application is aware of
> > > > > > each area/shape covered by
> > > > > > each single country.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Murad: is there anything I forgot?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * Flat Map:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are three visible bugs in the implementation right now. I'm
> > > > > > pretty sure
> > > > > > all of them can be fixed within the next week. Except for that
> > > > > > further cleaning up and performance optimizations are needed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Furthermore there are two features that would be nice to have for
> > > > > > the 0.5 release:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Mercator projection (like Google Maps does)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. Make texturemapper only update newly shown regions and reuse
> > > > > > the parts on
> > > > > > the screen that got rendered already before. This didn't work for
> > > > > > spherical
> > > > > > projection for obvious reasons so right now Marble still renders
> > > > > > and updates
> > > > > > the whole screen for each frame. However this trick would work
> > > > > > nicely for the
> > > > > > flat projection and would make moving around in Marble much
> > > > > > smoother and faster than for the flat projection (in fact as fast
> > > > > > as scrolling in khtml and kpdf).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The latter would be something that we can live without (however
> > > > > > I'd really like to see it in 0.5).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carlos: Is there anything I forgot?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also we need to solve the remaining "Known issues" of the 0.4
> > > > > > release no latter than for 0.5 (Especially: fix the embarrassing
> > > > > > Wikipedia browser).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > None of the features we need for Marble 0.5 require further
> > > > > > translation string
> > > > > > changes as far as I can tell (and if there should be a few left
> > > > > > then please
> > > > > > add them before the string freeze on August 26).
> > > > > > We also need to make sure that work on all the features left
> > > > > > still gets started before August 26, so we are still in
> > > > > > accordance with the feature freeze. Except for the country
> > > > > > feature I think all of the other essential features have been
> > > > > > worked on to some degree. So that's the only issue left of
> > > > > > concern.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Apart from beginning work on country support there is another
> > > > > > feature high on
> > > > > > the wish list: OpenStreetMap support: However I think we should
> > > > > > declare this
> > > > > > feature "optional" for Marble 0.5. It really should need only
> > > > > > little work on
> > > > > > Marble's source code to get this implemented (most work being to
> > > > > > setup the server with the right settings for the tile render
> > > > > > software). However 0.5is meant to focus on the work of the
> > > > > > students and I'd like to see 0.5released within the next 4 weeks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So that's my thoughts on Marble 0.5. Are there any things I've
> > > > > > been missing?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Torsten Rahn
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tel.: 0 21 61 - 46 43 - 192
> > > > > >
> > > > > > credativ GmbH, HRB Mönchengladbach 12080
> > > > > > Hohenzollernstr. 133, 41061 Mönchengladbach
> > > > > > Geschäftsführung: Dr. Michael Meskes, Jörg Folz
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > kde-edu mailing list
> > > > > > kde-edu at mail.kde.org
> > > > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >  Torsten Rahn
> > > > >
> > > > >  Tel.: 0 21 61 - 46 43 - 192
> > > > >
> > > > > credativ GmbH, HRB Mönchengladbach 12080
> > > > > Hohenzollernstr. 133, 41061 Mönchengladbach
> > > > > Geschäftsführung: Dr. Michael Meskes, Jörg Folz
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Marble-devel mailing list
> > > > Marble-devel at kde.org
> > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/marble-devel
> >
> > --
> >  Torsten Rahn
> >
> >  Tel.: 0 21 61 - 46 43 - 192
> >
> > credativ GmbH, HRB Mönchengladbach 12080
> > Hohenzollernstr. 133, 41061 Mönchengladbach
> > Geschäftsführung: Dr. Michael Meskes, Jörg Folz
> > _______________________________________________
> > Marble-devel mailing list
> > Marble-devel at kde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/marble-devel



-- 
 Torsten Rahn

 Tel.: 0 21 61 - 46 43 - 192

credativ GmbH, HRB Mönchengladbach 12080
Hohenzollernstr. 133, 41061 Mönchengladbach
Geschäftsführung: Dr. Michael Meskes, Jörg Folz

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