Meeting might be moved

[Emmet O'Neill]

Totally with you on both points, Tiar. =]

We're beyond the stage where it makes sense to add things like that popup
palette MR to 5.0, so instead of breaking string freeze we should just
include that in the 5.1 cycle.

As for the beta, I also think we should be flexible with our timing and
push the plans back a few weeks so that we can make sure that most of the
currently known issues are properly dealt with.
When it comes to animation we're already getting some useful and important
reports from nightly testers that I'd like Eoin and I to handle before the
beta goes out.
That way we can be reasonably confident that the 5.0 beta test is somewhat
stable and usable right off the bat, and we can focus on whatever new bug
reports end up coming in.

I've been keeping the resource system at arms length until now because it's
been a bit hard to navigate what needs to be done,
and I'm a bit weary of having too many cooks in the kitchen at this stage.
(On top of that, there's no shortage of animation tasks and bugs to work
on.)
But, if you or Halla think that we need to do an "all hands on deck" group
effort to get the resource system to where it needs to be, then we should
talk about organizing that.

Whether it's resources or animation, we have some bigger changes coming in
Krita 5, and I think it's important that these things are as solid as
possible to make a good initial impression.
Even though a beta is a beta, I think it'd be a mistake to release any
version if we aren't mostly confident that it's ready for prime time.

- Emmet



On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 1:33 AM Dmitry Kazakov <dimula73 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, Agata!
>
> > string freeze exception for this MR:
> https://invent.kde.org/graphics/krita/-/merge_requests/922
>
> I kind of agree about not making an exception for this patch :)
>
> > Beta release. It was supposed to be this Thursday
>
> I don't think we should make beta release before we finished the
> bundles/paitop presets file format. When embedding the dependent resources
> is ready, we can make the release. Otherwise we may end up having multiple
> file formats in the wild. Basically, "beta release" means that presets
> creators should start updating their bundles to the new versions, so that
> they would be ready by the moment of the final release.
>
> > d) embed brush tips into paintoppresets (Halla was doing that, and
> she's on holidays now)
>
> I would really like to know how bigger in size our bundles will grow
> because of that... I am really curious.
>
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 1:59 AM Tymon Dąbrowski <tamtamy.tymona at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> (I kinda thought I already volunteered to take care of that - though,
>> admittedly, I would first try to find someone else to lead the meeting,
>> since it's not really an easy thing to do - but when I got this mail I
>> realized I haven't said anything...)
>>
>> If we don't have a meeting, I have two things I would like to express my
>> opinion about.
>>
>> 1) string freeze exception for this MR:
>> https://invent.kde.org/graphics/krita/-/merge_requests/922 (it was
>> suggested in the MR comments) - I was working under an impression that
>> string freeze exception is only for important things, and while this is a
>> very nice change, it's just a usability improvement of a kind that I don't
>> think warrants a special treatment. I would agree if it was a new warning
>> message for something etc. The final decision is Halla's, though. I feel
>> like it's important to keep our promises as a way to show respect to our
>> translators. Though maybe I treat string freeze exceptions way more
>> seriously than I should be - maybe string freeze just means "tell
>> translators if you update strings"? If so, please tell me that, so I can
>> adjust my perspective.
>>
>> 2) Beta release. It was supposed to be this Thursday (though not sure how
>> that would happen with both Halla and I guess Dmitry on vacations), but I
>> believe it would be beneficial to move it further at least one week, if not
>> more.
>> There are a few blocking issues in resource rewrite and I believe other
>> things like animation and transform tool.
>> There is 10 bug reports marked "release_blocker":
>> https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDSINFO&bug_status=VERIFIED&f0=OP&f1=OP&f2=product&f3=component&f4=alias&f5=short_desc&f7=content&f8=CP&f9=CP&j1=OR&keywords=release_blocker%2C%20&keywords_type=allwords&list_id=1886247&o2=substring&o3=substring&o4=substring&o5=substring&o7=matches&product=krita&query_format=advanced&v2=krita&v3=krita&v4=krita&v5=krita&v7=%22krita%22
>> There is 14 bug reports marked "regression" (of course some of the
>> reports are the same as above):
>> https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDSINFO&bug_status=VERIFIED&f0=OP&f1=OP&f2=product&f3=component&f4=alias&f5=short_desc&f7=content&f8=CP&f9=CP&j1=OR&keywords=regression%2C%20&keywords_type=allwords&list_id=1886248&o2=substring&o3=substring&o4=substring&o5=substring&o7=matches&product=krita&query_format=advanced&v2=krita&v3=krita&v4=krita&v5=krita&v7=%22krita%22
>>
>> For the things blocking in resource rewrite, there are following
>> mini-projects:
>> a) (1-3 days, depending on the approach) tag models + comboboxes, a tag
>> shouldn't get deselected from the combobox on adding or removing a storage
>> (incl. startup of Krita)
>> b) (1 day) automatic rename of files of imported or added resources in
>> specific cases (would be better with user input, but I tried to work
>> without adding new strings; and this would be the most user-friendly
>> approach)
>> c) (? 1-3 days) extract tags to directory, but I probably should talk
>> with Halla about .xml tags before I can finish that
>> d) embed brush tips into paintoppresets (Halla was doing that, and she's
>> on holidays now)
>> e) rearrange brush tip GUI to make space for a label with an embedded
>> brush tip (related to (d), also Halla's work)
>> f) (less necessary, but would be good to have, and it's a regression)
>> remembering last used tags and resources for all dockers
>> (That's not all issues, but all the blocking/most important/bigger ones,
>> I believe).
>>
>> While I know that you can fix regressions in the beta period, I think the
>> purpose of beta is to test the code to see and fix issues developers
>> missed. Since we know there are big problems in Krita now, we should fix
>> them first, so beta testers will only test code considered "good" already.
>> I'm not advocating for delaying ad infinitum, I know we'll have to
>> release soon otherwise the technical debt will be increasing more and more.
>> But I think if we move the beta for one week, or maybe two, depending on
>> what state Krita will be in a week from now, and if the team now focuses
>> strictly on making Krita ready for release, then we'll gain more (by
>> avoiding reports about issues long known about, and making sure testers
>> test the fixes) than we'll lose (releasing potentially a bit later). I
>> think we should release beta when we feel we're ready for that, and for
>> now, I personally don't feel like Krita is ready.
>>
>> (If anyone would want to help with resource rewrite, but they feel unsure
>> what to do or how to do it, maybe because they never worked with the new
>> system or resources before, I can help and/or guide them through the task.
>> But in any case, there are other issues that need to be fixed, too).
>>
>> Let me know what you think.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tiar
>>
>>
>>
>> pon., 28 cze 2021 o 14:51 Wolthera <griffinvalley at gmail.com> napisał(a):
>>
>>> Hey everyone,
>>>
>>> I'm a little under the weather, and I can't seem to find anyone to
>>> take over the meeting, so I propose we either move the meeting to
>>> tomorrow or cancel it for this week.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wolthera
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Dmitry Kazakov
>
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