KOffice Creativity Package name

[Cyrille Berger]

On Thursday 01 November 2007, Thomas Zander wrote:
> On Thursday 01 November 2007 18:31:12 Cyrille Berger wrote:
> > As I said the word "office" is repealing to most artists with who we
> > have discussed this issue.
>
> And I agreed, hope that was clear :)
No but it is now :)

> > > Very much like there is no need to release 10 tarballs because users
> > > want to install Krita without having to install KWord.
> >
> > The way KOffice is packaged is very different in various distributions,
> > ranging from a all-in-one package, to an everything is splitted
> > (including plugins without correct dependencies, or even a very funny
> > libkofficegrayau8colorspace5 in Mandriave 2008 :D ) to thematic
> > grouping.
> >
> > So while I know that you believe that we should leave packaging to
> > distributions, I believe we need to be proactive
>
> Ok, fair enough.
> First question that I have here is what is *wrong* with how its done now,
> or, what could be done better.

Well currently krita/karbon are marketed as "part of KOffice". So whatever 
packaging solution that we currently have is good enough (except for all the 
dependencies bugs I have seen).

> There are some solutions you might want to try out; the first is talking
> to distros either directly, or by providing a readme.  I don't really
> care with medium is used, but a discussion can be opened with them.
> If that fails (did we already try?) we can look for other ways to do this.
Not with this specific issue, I don't expect any problem with Kubuntu or 
OpenSuSE (karbon and krita are allready packaged in koffice-illustration). 
Gentoo and BSD* are out, the way their packaging sytem works means one 
package == one tarball. Debian, Mandriva, Fedora Core didn't react well in 
the past to issue concerning their KOffice package. For debian, thought, it's 
possible that they would follow the split, the non reactivity doesn't come 
from the KDE team.

> In the context of this mail, I think we can suggest them to make an extra
> meta-package which will install krita + karbon. But naturally not
> KWord/KSpread/KPresenter.
>
> Just to be clear, such a solution will in no way effect the packaging of
> the current 'koffice' meta package.
Nor would the splitting of packages ;)

Anyway, in the end, it's up to Boudewijn to decide as he will take care of 
creating tarball.

> > > So, again, I love the idea, if you guys can pull it off, thats
> > > wonderful. At the same time it should not affect the current message
> > > KOffice sends out. Just complement it.
> >
> > Or clarify it. Because, trully, I have yet to find someone outside the
> > KOffice project that understand the "message". I don't know anybody who
> > hasn't ever asked me "but why Krita is part of an Office Suite ?"
>
> Right.
> And marketing the artistic package separate is a great idea.  It means
> that people can see Krita as a separate thing and don't have to know
> there is something called KOffice.
>
> Again, we most probably agree.
>
> One thing I want to make very clear, though, is that this will not in any
> way mean Krita needs to step out of KOffice.  We had this discussion
> already with KOffice falling under the KDE umbrella, but that when people
> looking directly for KOffice we don't make any association with KDE
> because people might mistakingly think they *need* KDE.
> Similar, people looking directly for Krita or Karbon will be able to find
> your new website etc.  No need to state it is part of KOffice as people
> can use Krita without knowing its part of KOffice (or KDE for that
> matter).
Erm. May I point out that KDE's marketing has "changed", toward clarification. 
Now KDE refers to the project, and not to the desktop, which is called the 
Workplace, and marketed as the KDE Workplace. 'KDE' (alone) is a little bit 
equivalent to 'Corel' now, in a sense that it is a software provider and not 
a desktop environnement. So I really believe we should follow that logic.

> Or, for the more technically inclined people;  you can create a new svn
> repository 'creativity' which just svn-externs krita and karbon (etc).
> The externing means that the code will still be visible from the
> koffice-repo as well.
That's more or less what's Boudewijn is suggesting on irc ;)

-- 
Cyrille Berger