Re: [Design] lighten Dolphin’s Control menu

[Todd]

On Sep 2, 2013 12:51 AM, "sinma" <eichi237 at mailoo.org> wrote:
>
> Hello again, thanks for replying.
>
>
> Le dimanche 1 septembre 2013 14:11:11 Todd a écrit :
> > On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 7:31 PM, sinma <eichi237 at mailoo.org> wrote:
> > > * «Reload» is not useful for most people, because Dolphin take care of
> > > reloading the view (or at least to display almost immediately the
change
> > > in the working directory).
> >
> > Only on local folders.  On remote folders it often doesn't do as good
of a
> > job.
>
> Can be it on a submenu?
I wouldn't, remote filesystem access is a fairly common use-case in many
settings. Again, just because it isn't important to you doesn't mean we
should make everyone else's life more difficult.

> Furthermore, F5 is a well know shortcut, and reload
> isn’t used each 2 minutes.
In my experience ctrl-z is far better known yet you are proposing putting
the undo button in the toolbar.  In fact I have never met anyone in person
who knew the f5 shortcut, but I have also not met anyone who doesn't know
ctrl-z.

> > >* The «Go» submenu is useless, it’s just a garbage from the old
Dolphin UI
> > > because it’s duplicating features that are already accessible in one
clic
> > > in the toolbar.
> >
> > "Home" and "Recently closed tabs" are not in the toolbar by default on
my
> > system.
>
> "Home" is almost always the personal folder, and the few geeks that use
it now
> probably know what is Alt+Home.

What about when the panels are hidden.

I'm a geek, I have done programming on dolphin, yet I didn't know about
alt-home.

>
> > > ** «Show Filter Bar» must be placed in the toolbar, at the left of the
> > > «Find» icon (and maybe renamed because it’s its name is a bit
confusing
> > > for the noob I think). By the way, when clicking the second time on
«Show
> > > Filter Bar» or «Find», it must close the previously opened bar.
> >
> > I would argue it would be better to merge filter and find, but in the
> > present situation people who need to use filter a lot can enable it by
> > default.  But there is a question whether enough people use it to
justify
> > this.
>
> Filter bar is definitely more useful to me, but I barely use it because
it’s
> not on the toolbar so I forget about it.

Then you should enable it by default.

> > > * The «Show Menubar» is not used frequently, so it may be better to
move
> > > it to the configuration dialog or get rid of it.
> >
> > The whole point is to make it easy to get the menu back if someone
> > accidentally removes it.
>
> Is the menubar really used anymore? The "new" UI of Dolphin is pretty good
> (and will be better if we can simplify it a bit).
>
> Maybe it’s not worth it to keep the possibility to go back to the
menubar. I
> think some users still use it by habit or because it’s the default
settings on
> some distros, but in the more or less near future almost nobody will use
it.

Source?  Again, if you are going to make these sorts of assertions you need
to justify them somehow.  You can't just take your own personal preferences
and present them as universal rules of human behavior and expect to be
taken seriously.

> > > * is it really the place for «New Window» and «New Tab» entries?
> >
> > Generally people will be using the right-click or middle-click for that,
> > but maintaining that functionality, especially when those buttons are
not
> > available, is still important.
>
> I think this two strings must be replaced by "Open In New Window" and
"Open in
> New Tab": I didn’t understand that it opens the working directory in
another
> window or tab but, as the name suggests, that it opens a new Dolphin view
on
> the default folder (like when we launch a new Dolphin instance).

I don't see how it matters.  It needs to open some directory.

> > So it gives me the following:
> > > Select All
> > > Invert Selection
> > > ---
> > > Sort by           >
> > > Show in Groups
> > > Show Hidden Files
> > > Panels            >
> > > ---
> > > Settings          >
> > >
> > >                        Configure Shortcuts…
> > >                        Configure Toolbars…
> > >                        Configure Dolphin…
> > >
> > > Help              >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cleaner, isn’t it? Don’t forget that most of the functions aren’t
deleted,
> > > because either there’s a better way to acces it (easier to find and/or
> > > quicker
> > > to use), or it’s deported in the toolbar.
> >
> > You are ending up with a very large set of toolbar buttons, which can
be a
> > problem on small screens.   Basically your argument boils down to "we
> > should put things I use in the toolbar and get rid of things I don't
use".
> > But if you are going to include substantial changes like this you need
to
> > justify them beyond just your own work-flow.  You need to provide some
> > evidence that these are or are not useful enough to the average user to
> > justify what you are proposing.
>
> I’m not a designer, I havn’t numbers to put on usage but I’ve many ideas,
and
> I think it’s worth it to discuss it (because you know Dolphin users more
than
> me and you can tell me if what I purpose is good or not).

The primary problem here isn't that you have ideas.  The problem is that
you are not making any effort to separate your own needs and workflow from
those of the dolphin user base as a whole.  Dolphin is not designed for
you, it is designed for a wide variety of people in a wide variety of
settings and a wider variety of needs.  You need to think about how your
proposals will affect other people who work differently from you, but even
in your reply you continue to not do that.

The secondary problem is that you are proposing very invasive changes
without providing any good reason to think that it will actually make
anything better.  The core dolphin developers, of which I am not one, are
justifiably very hesitant to make any change that could hamper anyone's
workflow without a very good reason to do so.  You have not provided any
such reasons, just your own opinions about your own workflow.  But your
proposed changes will certainly make things worse for many people, but you
have not provided any reason to think they will make things better.

If you want to make a proposal for an critical application like dolphin, it
should either be something where you can demonstrate an overwhelming net
benefit, or something that can't negatively affect anyone.  Your proposals
do not fit in any category.

>
> I’ve added a "View" submenu, don’t know if it’s better than before but it
> seems fair. Before: 18 entries. Now: 8.
>
>
> Select All
> Invert Selection
> ---
> View             >
>                       Sort by                >
>                       Additional Information >
>                       Show in Groups
>                       Show Hidden Files
>                       Reload
> Panels           >
> ---
> Tools            >    // I don’t know if it’s a good place…
>                       Recently Closed Tabs >
>                       Compare Files
>                       Select Remote Charset
> Settings         >
>                       Configure Shortcuts…
>                       Configure Toolbars…
>                       Configure Dolphin…
> Help             >
> (Show Menubar)
>
>
> The toolbar (don’t know if there’s a good place for "Undo"):
>
>
> Previous   Next | Icons   Compact   Details   Preview   Split View | Find
> Undo | Control
>
>
> Last but not least, why are there "Undo" but not "Redo"? That sounds a bit
> strange.
>
>
> Thanks for reading,
>
> sinma
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