8K Support?

Tobiasz Karoń unfa00 at gmail.com
Wed Jul 29 15:06:04 BST 2020

śr., 29 lip 2020 o 13:39 farid abdelnour <snd.noise at gmail.com> napisał(a):

> Em qua., 29 de jul. de 2020 às 07:53, Tobiasz Karoń <unfa00 at gmail.com>
> escreveu:
>> I simply exported my pre-composited footage from Olive and the first 3/4
>> of the video I've managed to edit and completed the project in Kdenlive.
>> I had some bad audio glitches from Kdenlive though, so I wasn't happy :(
> The audio artifacts that have haunted us for so many years have finally
> been fixed and will be in the next release of MLT (6.22). Btw, do use the
> Kdenlive AppImage since it uses MLT from master and fixes this...
Ah, thanks - that's good to know. I was in a hurry and didn't have time to
find a different build to render my project at the time.
But I'm glad it's fixed now!

>> I think Olive is going to implement Open Timeline IO too, but I don't
>> know what the status of that is.
>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 15:44 <amindfv at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks, there's a lot of good info here! You mention switching from
>>> Olive to Kdenlive to finish an edit. Does Olive have a standardized file
>>> format? Was the switching process painful?
>>> Also, does Olive have a CLI?
>>> Tom
>>> El 27 jul 2020, a las 21:19, Tobiasz Karoń <unfa00 at gmail.com> escribió:
>>> I would personally not bet on MLT improving here. It's a very old
>>> framework with a legacy that's holding it back, and it doesn't seem to get
>>> much development done. I think it'd be best if video editors simply stopped
>>> considering it a good option. We have way too many "front-ends" to MLT all
>>> being held back by it's limited design.
>>> OpenShot tried to go beyond MLT, but... that apparently didn't go too
>>> well.
>>> I'm glad Kdenlive has started work to make it possible to implement a
>>> different back-end (maybe some cooperation with the Olive team could
>>> occur?) - and also implementing Open Timeline IO. I hope we can create some
>>> synergy between software using such open data exchange standards.
>>> Especially since they are used in the industry - which could help "serious"
>>> people consider using libre software.
>>> There's a long way to go before that's gonna be possible, but I think
>>> we're on a good track.
>>> I've been using Olive Video Editor for the past year or so (also limited
>>> to 8-bit color, at least for output - the processing is done 100% using
>>> GLSL so it's in a good position to develop further from that though - I
>>> even made my own effects for it). There's a rewrite going on that
>>> incorporated Open Color IO for flexible color management, also a node
>>> editor for fine grained control of all the processing being done (in the
>>> future this should allow for insanely powerful compositing but also reusing
>>> and sharing your own effects etc.), There's also a timeline proxy being
>>> implemented that stores frames in EXR files (an SSD for a scratch drive
>>> would be very recommended - I should test that more myself). I believe it's
>>> also ingesting input media (converting frames to EXR) not sure if that's
>>> mandatory though from my testing.
>>> That'll possibly allow for very responsive scrubbing. Also the rendering
>>> pipeline can use reduced resolution to speed up the compositing - I'm happy
>>> Kdenlive implemented that recently (in Kdenlive it's possibly more useful
>>> right now).
>>> So far the new Olive version is very unstable and can't be used to do
>>> any work really, but they're doing great progress with it and release
>>> updated builds very often (evey week or more frequently - so called
>>> Continuous Build).
>>> It's taking a lot of time, but it seems they can do without duct tape
>>> and build an open-source NLE that'll finally have a chance to not only have
>>> a nice UI and workflow, but also have all the basic and advanced features
>>> you'd want and let you use good cameras or deep-color CGI renders, composit
>>> and process that and get top-quality results with them. While also
>>> utilizing modern computer hardware in 100%.
>>> Now - Olive is not perfect and I had some serious issues with it, where
>>> I had to fallback to Kdenlive to finish editing a video as it's would crash
>>> every few seconds in projects longer than 20 minutes. I've finally found a
>>> build that doesn't have this bug and can work on it, but that was bad. The
>>> main developer seems to have an idea what the issue is though, I've worked
>>> with him to solve this.
>>> Olive's 0.1 version is the current "stable alpha" that I use - it's very
>>> limited in effects compared to Kdenlive (they are more reliable and not
>>> redundant though), but it's responsive and I like the editing tools a lot.
>>> When I edit my videos I always need at least 2 audio tracks in sync, and
>>> min. 2 composited images with chroma keying.
>>> In Blender VSE I had to train myself to cut in a very specific way to
>>> keep everything in sync (manually making sure I keep the sync between
>>> strips) because it had no way to link strips together, only group them into
>>> meta-strips (Olive has that option too - Nesting).
>>> In Kdenlive I always had issues importing my multiple audio tracks and
>>> even though linking works, the editing tools never worked for me as well as
>>> they do in Olive.
>>> Also - in any libre NLE I tried (all were heavily CPU-bound and
>>> single-threaded) compositing 2 or more 1080p layers dropped preview
>>> framerate to 15-20 FPS, and if you add a blur effect - it goes below 10.
>>> Olive can do this in realtime thanks to OpenGL if the files are not too
>>> high quality (I've recently started encoding H.264 proxy files) - seems
>>> that decoding 15Mbps H.264 is a bottleneck in Olive, and it's default
>>> Protest proxy files take ages to encode and are insanely big.
>>> I'm sorry - I think I went completely off-topic...
>>> It's very late, I should go to sleep :D
>>> Good night!
>>> - unfa
>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 01:29 <amindfv at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Agh this sucks! I did read this in the mlt docs but at the time it
>>>> wasn't limiting what I was doing... I will ask on the MLT list if there's
>>>> any work being done on this.
>>>> El 27 jul 2020, a las 14:44, Tobiasz Karoń <unfa00 at gmail.com> escribió:
>>>> MLT (and hence all software that depends on it) is hard-coded for 8-bit
>>>> color. It was created for TV broadcasting, not video editing really.
>>>> I am not sure about Blender VSE nowadays - maybe that one allows
>>>> working with deep color?
>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 13:14 <amindfv at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Does Kdenlive/MLT not support 10-bit color?
>>>>> El 25 jul 2020, a las 19:35, Tobiasz Karoń <unfa00 at gmail.com>
>>>>> escribió:
>>>>> Out of curiosity: what would you need 8K for?
>>>>> And also - wouldn't you need 10-bit color too?
>>>>> - unfa
>>>>> sob., 25 lip 2020 o 19:02 Almond Joy <almondjoyix at gmail.com>
>>>>> napisał(a):
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> Is your video editing software 8K compatible?
>>>>>> Thank You
>>>>> --
>>>>> - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń
>>>>> www.youtube.com/unfa000
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- Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń

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