[kdenlive] kdenlive Digest, Vol 20, Issue 13

[Evert Vorster]

Ah, at least we are discussing kdenlive, which is a good thing.

No one here is trying to wreck kdenlive, as we are all users of this fine
software.

I believe that everyone has the right to speak, and Larry is obviously
unhappy about something.

Honestly, I would not know what chroma key is, and even less on how to use
it. But, if someone can point me to the bug report on this issue I can
investigate and see if maybe we can flesh out the ticket, and do most of
the hard legwork for JB. I might even learn something in the process.

Sounds fair, everyone?

Oh, and I do think some sort of a bounty program would be awesome. I use
free software for the freedom aspect of it, not because I can't afford to
pay for it. :P

On 18 June 2016 at 20:44, farid abdelnour <snd.noise at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Larry,
>
> Two things:
>
> 1- This isn't a place for politics, even though using free software could
> be a political stance, here we discuss everything related to kdenlive it is
> not censorship but focus on the topic. Plus there are better places for
> this issues.
>
> 2- The tone you write your emails with are as is someone owes you
> something. If you don't like how something has changed try to come up with
> a solution and not just complain. If you want something urgently then offer
> a bounty and maybe someone will pick it up.
>
> Have a good weekend.
>
>
> 2016-06-18 15:22 GMT-03:00 Larry Engel <larryengel at justice.com>:
>
>> In Kdenlive the Chroma Key worked well.  There are even youtube.com
>> videos showing how to use it.
>> With all do respect Mr Massimo Stella the tone of my comment is based on
>> the fact that in earlier versions Chroma Key was doing a good job.
>> Someone made an error causing a major problem when that should have left
>> well enough alone, if they did not want to spend the time to test changes.
>> All video editors today are subject to sabotage for political reasons.
>> It is a way to censor the internet. When something goes beyond a mere bug
>> and causes major problems, hopefully it was a mistake.  The Chroma Key was
>> working and easy to use, just put it back the way it was in earlier
>> versions. So why did this happen?  Will the party explain the change? What
>> is the idea?  Why do they not believe that wrecking Chroma Key is serious
>> stuff?  I have experienced a couple of slam bugs, if that is the problem
>> with Kdenkive folks - heres how to handle it.  Don't get upset! Save your
>> work frequently. when it crashes reboot and go on with the project.  It is
>> no big deal.  Killing Chroma Key is major!
>> --- kdenlive-request at kde.org wrote:
>>
>> From: kdenlive-request at kde.org
>> To: kdenlive at kde.org
>> Subject: kdenlive Digest, Vol 20, Issue 13
>> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 16:01:36 +0000
>>
>> Send kdenlive mailing list submissions to
>>         kdenlive at kde.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>         https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdenlive
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         kdenlive-request at kde.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>         kdenlive-owner at kde.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of kdenlive digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1.  Kdenlive release cycles (Narcis Garcia)
>>    2. Re:  R: Re: kdenlive Digest, Vol 20, Issue 11 (Evert Vorster)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 18:00:11 +0200
>> From: Narcis Garcia <informatica at actiu.net>
>> To: kdenlive at kde.org
>> Subject: [kdenlive] Kdenlive release cycles
>> Message-ID: <5765700B.6000406 at actiu.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> How does work Kdenlive's versioning and stabilization?
>>
>> Are there some kind of "major", "LTS" or "stable" versions that are
>> feature-frozen and focused about updates for bug fixing?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:01:25 +0100
>> From: Evert Vorster <evorster at gmail.com>
>> To: Massimo Stella <maxstar at tin.it>
>> Cc: larryengel at justice.com, Kdenlive <kdenlive at kde.org>
>> Subject: Re: [kdenlive] R: Re: kdenlive Digest, Vol 20, Issue 11
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> CAER78vSPHp68xDA9eua5ibEUnmuBxr4+2ME5pA6_ikyMhhVsTA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi there, just to clear up some confusion on some points...
>>
>> Some applications have a default scheme, and also a setting for following
>> the system scheme. This makes just about everyone happy.
>> Kdenlive is by default to follow the system, scheme, and that is not a bad
>> default at all.
>>
>> Not a single complaint from me there.
>>
>> That Kdenlive is buggy is a statement of fact. That this buggyness
>> detracts
>> from the user experience is a fact. I can point you to a rather long list
>> of open bugs on kdenlive.
>> I can also point you to a much longer list of closed out bugs, which
>> attests to the Herculean efforts that JB is putting in. Still no
>> complaints
>> from my side.
>>
>> If I could code, I would contribute, but I can't, and I am doing the next
>> best thing and reporting bugs that I find, as I find them. Hopefully no
>> one
>> is confusing this with complaining.
>>
>> In my opinion, Kdenlive is doing about as well as a single main developer
>> can do with maintenance in his spare time.
>> We either need more developers donating spare time, or hire a developer
>> either part time or full time... for which we need money.
>>
>> Any ideas on how much money is needed or how it can be made are quite
>> welcome, of course.
>>
>> One way would be to pay for preferential treatment for bug fixes or
>> feature
>> additions. I would gladly pay $50 to be able to switch projects between
>> fps
>> without corruption, for instance.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Evert
>>
>> On 18 June 2016 at 15:35, Massimo Stella <maxstar at tin.it> wrote:
>>
>> > I never commented before emails about topics not directly linked to the
>> > improvement of Kdenlive. But now I'm really bored in reading texts which
>> > contains, though in a respectful form, insults, outlets for frustration
>> and
>> > useless polemics.
>> > My opinion is that we have to help developers in creating an application
>> > which can interest professionals and I believe that we'll be able to do
>> it
>> > by inserting in Kdenlive the majority of the tools professionals need
>> > before we create the windows version. When the Windows version will be
>> > ready (as Windows on desktop is still adopted by 75% of the users)
>> people
>> > will be able to decide if to continue to use proprietary software or
>> FLOSS
>> > for professional video editing purpose.
>> > When I read sentence like "Thereby, making Kdenkive a amateur second
>> class
>> > editor. It is more than a bug" related to chromakey feature, or "I
>> > respectfully disagree on same look everywhere." and then "Kdenlive
>> today is
>> > that it is so buggy that you can't do any serious work on it" I think
>> that
>> > people before to write has to know better what are  real video editor
>> > applications on the market, how they are used by real professionals and
>> > take respect for the hard job people, like Jean-Baptiste, are doing.
>> > About chromakey and effects filters I already wrote that in real world
>> > producers use video editor applications for editing and compositing
>> > software for comppositing. So generally in a professional studio or in
>> > television nobody use AVID for chromkeying purpose. Of course it's
>> better
>> > to have a fully functionally chromakey feature working inside Kdenlive
>> (for
>> > fast and rough keying jobs) but the lack of it doesn't make "make
>> Kdenkive
>> > a amateur second class editor. It is more than a bug". Feature lacks for
>> > real editors are others. For a good chromakey you can use Blender
>> > compositor and Natron, just for eg., which were created also for this
>> > purpose. You create effects in a compositing application and then you
>> edit
>> > them inside your video with a video editor applications, this is what
>> > happens in real productions.
>> > Then someone complains about bugs but it also complains about the GUI.
>> He
>> > wants less bugs but also a configurable theme fo making his computer
>> looks
>> > all the same.
>> > Actually in proprietary software world each application has it's own
>> theme
>> > and you can just maybe change the color if you are lucky. Also some
>> > application on the FLOSS world work this way too. If to create a fixed
>> > theme and set of icons help to fix bugs in the Kdenlive GUI we have to
>> > choose the way which easier solve the problem instead of ask for
>> something
>> > which consume time in developping other more important features.
>> > I believe we have to test and know what others very costly applications,
>> > developped by groups of dozens of people, do and try to sugguest how to
>> > improve Kdenlive for becoming the best video editor application ever,
>> > instead of  complain and use these tones.
>> >
>> > My suggestion is to follows these steps:
>> > 1. Complete the application with all the tools for editing (not for
>> > compositing) professionals need.
>> > 2. Fix all the bugs (even during the first step)
>> > 3. Propose the software to the Windows community and simplify the way to
>> > install it on MacOS (and with this move we'll enter in direct
>> competition
>> > with Adobe, Avid and other software houses)
>> > 4. Improve the software by adding filters and compositing feature we
>> still
>> > miss.
>> >
>> > So, please, stop to complain and collaborate!
>> >
>> > ----Messaggio originale----
>> > Da: larryengel at justice.com
>> > Data: 18-giu-2016 14.52
>> > A: <kdenlive at kde.org>
>> > Ogg: Re: [kdenlive] kdenlive Digest, Vol 20, Issue 11
>> >
>> >
>> > No video editor can be consider serious if Chrome Key does not work with
>> > blue or green as is the case with Ubuntu 15.04.1
>> >
>> > --- kdenlive-request at kde.org wrote:
>> >
>> > From: kdenlive-request at kde.org
>> > To: kdenlive at kde.org
>> > Subject: kdenlive Digest, Vol 20, Issue 11
>> > Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 12:00:15 +0000
>> >
>> > Send kdenlive mailing list submissions to
>> > kdenlive at kde.org
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdenlive
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > kdenlive-request at kde.org
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > kdenlive-owner at kde.org
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of kdenlive digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> >    1. Re:  Catching discussions from Kdenlive café #7 (Evert Vorster)
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 04:24:45 +0100
>> > From: Evert Vorster <evorster at gmail.com>
>> > To: Jesse DuBord <jesse.dubord at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: Kdenlive <kdenlive at kde.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [kdenlive] Catching discussions from Kdenlive café #7
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <CAER78vT0+CmPVo81fma11_5+akDdjd+0Lhh+M5G-vkGaB7TUnw at mail.gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >
>> > I respectfully disagree on same look everywhere.
>> >
>> >
>> > I use the breeze dark theme on my desktop, and expect ALL my
>> applications
>> > to have that theme applied.
>> >
>> > Someone else might prefer a different theme for their desktop, and
>> expect
>> > that theme to be everywhere.
>> >
>> > Like it or not, desktops have themes, and there are as many variations
>> as
>> > there are people using them.
>> >
>> > Even something as simple as layout... what I prefer is completely
>> different
>> > from what you prefer. The beauty of kdenlive today it that it is
>> > _configurable_, so that you can get the look and layout that you want,
>> and
>> > I can get the look and layout that _I_ want, and everybody is happy.
>> >
>> > The biggest detractor of Kdenlive today is that it is so buggy that you
>> > can't do any serious work on it. Of course I use the git version, so the
>> > set up bugs keep changing, and I do bug reports as quickly as I can
>> ferret
>> > them out, but the list of bugs seem to be growing. At some point we
>> have to
>> > stop adding features for a bit and squash bugs, which will improve the
>> user
>> > experience much, much more than a nice set of icons.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Evert Vorster
>> >
>> > On 17 June 2016 at 23:28, Jesse DuBord <jesse.dubord at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I completely agree with Farid about the universal interface.
>> Preferably,
>> > > it would be great to see it all the same across distros right out of
>> the
>> > > box, without the user needing to go into styles and themes to choose
>> what
>> > > they think it should look like. For GNOME-based desktops, it's almost
>> 90%
>> > > identical to Kdenlive in KDE Plasma -- the only exception I'm seeing
>> are
>> > > the dialog boxes  when opening a project or adding clips/media (see
>> this
>> > > bug: <https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360882>
>> > > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=360882). However this can be set
>> > up,
>> > > I think it would be a huge step towards a more solid, positive
>> > recognition
>> > > with the Kdenlive appearance; users will know it by its look and
>> color,
>> > you
>> > > know?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 06/17/2016 05:00 AM, kdenlive-request at kde.org wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Send kdenlive mailing list submissions to
>> > > kdenlive at kde.org
>> > >
>> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdenlive
>> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > > kdenlive-request at kde.org
>> > >
>> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > > kdenlive-owner at kde.org
>> > >
>> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > > than "Re: Contents of kdenlive digest..."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Today's Topics:
>> > >
>> > >    1. Re:  Catching discussions from Kdenlive café #7 (farid
>> abdelnour)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 1
>> > > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 17:52:20 -0300
>> > > From: farid abdelnour <snd.noise at gmail.com> <snd.noise at gmail.com>
>> > > To: kdenlive <kdenlive at kde.org> <kdenlive at kde.org>
>> > > Subject: Re: [kdenlive] Catching discussions from Kdenlive café #7
>> > > Message-ID:
>> > > <CAHMxv36SnYradXWOnQmXPBYuxVvNqQTAxm6JMDf+L1m-KdE_Kg at mail.gmail.com>
>> <
>> > CAHMxv36SnYradXWOnQmXPBYuxVvNqQTAxm6JMDf+L1m-KdE_Kg at mail.gmail.com>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> > >
>> > > Hi Vincent,
>> > >
>> > > - packaging: I had already updated stable PPA to 16.04.1. For me the
>> > logics
>> > >
>> > > behind PPAs is still relevant: master for dev version, testing for
>> bugfix
>> > > as soon as they get out (16.04 branch for the moment), and stable for
>> > > releases (downloads not more than every month)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > How relevant are PPA's now that Snap is launched?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > - Movit: just seen on forum that the lib is sensitive to localization:
>> > https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=269&t=132764&p=358335#p358314
>> worth
>> > > a try!?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I see that in Shotcut Movit causes a lot of bugs, I think we should
>> wait
>> > > until it gets stable or add a warning to users.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > - icons: that's really surprising that no script can do the job yet!
>> What
>> > > is montel doing? ;)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Icons are messy still and this should be fixed for 16.08. We need to
>> > offer
>> > > a similar interface experience across all platforms and between
>> different
>> > > distros. A packaging guideline should be established.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > - site: I have no time for this; maybe I should handle the
>> installation
>> > > part? (want to look at Flatpak!)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Yes,please join in :)
>> > >
>> > > What are your views? Snap, Flatpak or both?
>> > >
>> > > - wanted to add: Farid is asking for EDL for years... and Shotcut has
>> > just
>> > >
>> > > integrated this feature! Maybe not so far for Kdenlive?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > That would be a dream come true. I see Natron people have noticed
>> this.
>> > Do
>> > > you know which EDL stardard they use?
>> > >
>> > > Cheers
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > J e s s e   D u B o r d
>> > >  ❯  Filmmaker, Screenwriter, Director, 3D Animator, Dreamer.
>> > >
>> > > YouTube <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_32AyzBmFl_AXJ8mqOeAfw> |
>> > > Google+ <https://plus.google.com/+JDRichards/posts> | Twitter
>> > > <https://twitter.com/JesseDuBord>
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > kdenlive mailing list
>> > > kdenlive at kde.org
>> > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdenlive
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Evert Vorster
>> > Isometrix Acquistion Superchief
>> > (Streamer Handling)
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>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Subject: Digest Footer
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > kdenlive mailing list
>> > kdenlive at kde.org
>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdenlive
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > End of kdenlive Digest, Vol 20, Issue 11
>> > ****************************************
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _____________________________________________________________
>> > Find a local lawyer and free legal information at FindLaw.com.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > kdenlive mailing list
>> > kdenlive at kde.org
>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdenlive
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > kdenlive mailing list
>> > kdenlive at kde.org
>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdenlive
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Evert Vorster
>> Isometrix Acquistion Superchief
>> (Streamer Handling)
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kdenlive mailing list
>> kdenlive at kde.org
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdenlive
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of kdenlive Digest, Vol 20, Issue 13
>> ****************************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________
>> Find a local lawyer and free legal information at FindLaw.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> kdenlive mailing list
>> kdenlive at kde.org
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdenlive
>>
>
>
>
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-- 
Evert Vorster
Isometrix Acquistion Superchief
(Streamer Handling)
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