[Kdenlive-devel] Drag Value

Tue Feb 8 20:46:01 UTC 2011

Thanks Dan.
Well, I hope the fact that I'm exposed to students on a daily basis, since
2000 helps my understanding of what results intuitive and what not. I've
found for example that floating windows were always a problem with new
students, a few years back. They constantly (and inadvertently) moved them
partially beyond the screen limits and then say things such as: "I don't
have that option in my program". Obviously that option was out of screen. :)
When Adobe changed the interface to docked panels (in CS2) that problem
completely disapeared. I instantly knew that was a good change!

With this widget I've always had a good experience. Is all I can say.

But it's interesting to know that this kind of widget was not really
designed by Adobe, but by CoSA, the company that created After Effects, in
1993, then the company was absorbed by Aldus, which in turn was absorbed by
Adobe.
http://aeportal.blogspot.com/2009/08/after-effects-1-interface.html
Then, many years (5 or so) later, Adobe started incorporating this kind of
widget into its other products. So let me take this as a sign that marks it
wasn't really a rushed decision, but one moved by proven facts.
This of course wouldn't be a proof of anything, if the widget wouldn't have
provided a great performance, but I my experience it did!

Also, over the years there have been many solution for that same problem. I
expose some of them here:
*3ds Max* has its spinners, and they are good! Specially as they alow to
drag infinitely past the screen border, and they allow to reset it's value
with just one click of the mouse.
*Lightwave* has its mini sliders and they are good! Specially they allow to
drag color channel values individually, or right click drag to change
luminosity of the color.
*Maya* has a virtual slider system in the ChannelBox (only) and it's not
completely good. It has its pros (slide several parameters simultaneously),
but it's cons too (not available everywhere, more clicks to use it tan other
systems). It also have an invisible way of dragging values by pressing Ctrl
and dragging in any value input box (each mouse button changing the speed of
change), but usualy the cursor gets "trapped" inside the input box after
dragging turning the solution really bad. This used to work really well,
untill they switched the interface to Qt in the last release. I presume they
will fix this perhaps in a later release.
*Photoshop* has it's sliders too (sliding over the parameter name, not the
value) and they are good. But if you manually enter a value, then the cursor
will always get trapped inside the input box until you click in other part
of the interface.
*Combustion* has its sliders and are good, but take much space and clutter
the interface (not so different to some ideas proposed here, with rectangles
enclosing parameter values). Also, they are sometimes hard to use, because
they require you to double click to enter a value directly.

But I think* After Effects* widgets are the best of them all.
If I had to resume why, Id say because:
They are *small*: That way actual working or viewing space gains importance
in the interface against space devoted to parameters and other technical
things.
They are *light*. Visually they do not call the user attention all the time.
But when the user needs them they are fully functional and its reduced
footprint allows to see more parameters in less space.
They are *flexible*: The user can slide visually if he/she wants it to (by
expanding the widget to a visual slider or rotation knob).
They are *intuitive*: Users quickly discover how to use them, and they like
it. That's my subjective experience in class, of course.
They are *easy and precise*. Inserting a value manualy is just a click away,
for the times you want to get precise. (Believe it or not more users than
one would think have problems with double clicking!!)
They are *safe*: The cursor never gets trapped inside the input box, like in
Photohsop, 3ds Max, Maya or many many other programs' value widgets. This is
perhaps the most irritating and confusing fact happening in so many
programs, and sometimes users just don't understand what's really happening
when they face it. They just think the program is "not working well".

I don't say it's something that can't be perfected, I just say it's really
efficient and it works.
So taking it as a basis for our program can't be a bad choice.

P.S. regarding honesty. just look for me
here<http://translate.google.com.uy/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.animationcampus.edu.uy%2Fespanol%2Fplantel_de_instructores-20&act=url>:
:)

Regards,
Gabriel

2011/2/8 Dan Dennedy <dan at dennedy.org>

> 2011/2/8 Gabriel Gazzán <gabcorreo at gmail.com>:
> > After Effects way of showing parameters is the best and most productive
> way
> > of handling parameter values and presentation I've seen so far. (I've
> used a
> > lot of graphics related programs out there to a great extent and my
> > conclusion favors the After Effects way. I'm certified instructor of 3ds
> > Max, Maya, After Effects and Premiere, I've used Lightwave, Photohsop,
> GIMP,
> > Krita, I'm here since the Amiga days and expecienced many many kind of
> > programs all these years.)
> > This is not to say you can't have a different (and better) opinion than
> me,
> > but just to say that I've really experienced what I'm sustaining here as
> a
> > good option, and why I know it really workes well.
>
> I think Gabriel's background is very good to have available - assuming
> honesty ;-). With that said, Gabriel, I ask you to also consider the
> intermediate user base and not just power-user. Maybe you are, but is
> what you are suggesting fairly obvious and visually consistent with
> the KDE/Qt widget designs? I am not claiming your suggestions are not;
> I have done enough recent analysis of the proposals, but I know for
> example, that dashed underlines under editable values are fairly
> obvious but not consistent whereas sunken boxes are both obvious and
> consistent, if somewhat heavy.
>
> --
> +-DRD-+
>
>
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