[kde-solaris] [kde-discuss] KBE 1.0 - Build enviroment for KDE

[Shawn Walker]

On Dec 11, 2007 12:48 AM, Alan DuBoff <alan.duboff at sun.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Shawn Walker wrote:
> > Remember that any C++ dependencies we have are incompatible with other
> > C++ apps built against the other C++ runtime that comes with Solaris.
>
> Why so? We're going to use Studio, and link with our own library. Why
> would that effect other apps?

Because you haven't yet said that the libraries would be named any
differently. Thus, a binary application distributed that was linked
against a version of say, Qt, that was compiled with the normal C++
runtime instead of stdcxx would likely have issues.

> > The other is because I know what the configuration of our dependencies
> > are like and how somewhat hacky or builds are since I've been working
> > with Stefan to get the dependencies going.
> >
> > That's my point. I think Adriaan has it right.
>
> No, he doesn't, and software will be moving into /usr.

He doesn't because you said so or because you have a methodical,
well-reasoned argument?


...and what's with the "software will be moving into /usr" -- when you
say it like that, it sounds like its your decision, which I don't
think it is.

You have been extremely confrontational in this discussion and I
really don't appreciate it.

Every point I have is simply discarded with the argument that you know
better, things will happen differently, and that I'm wrong without any
reasonable explanation.

> Traditionally, software went it /opt as it was optional to the system, but
> the desktop is not something that is optional, nor is much of the open
> source software, IMO.

Until Sun changes their documentation it has nothing to do with
tradition and everything to do with the guidelines of the system. The
whole /usr argument only applies to what *Sun* distributes internally.

I have not seen any ARC cases nor proposed documentation updates that
suggest that 3rd party software should be installed anywhere else.

In addition, you seem to be throwing cold water on any administrators
who like to administer diskless systems. /usr is *not* used for 3rd
party software for a reason.

Your attitude of "screw the admins!" isn't particularly appreciated.

> > So how do you want to support side-by-side installations of KDE3&4?
> > I'm betting on many users wanting to be able to easily switch between
> > both.
>
> I don't, and I don't care of they can switch or not. Remove the packages
> and install the version you need, simple.

"screw the admins! screw the users! screw them all!"

Wow; you must make great friends at parties.

> > In the end, as much as I dislike it. I can live with kde in /usr and
> > maybe even our C deps. Though I would still like /usr/local better
> > since that's what many GNU/Linux apps do today even!
>
> No, that won't work either.

Because you don't like it? Or because of some set of guidelines?

> For many years Solaris has been a one-off because it didn't put software
> in it's default location and required the setting of the target when
> building.

Please show me a study proving this. I can point you to many
discussions on mailing lists, etc. and the majority of complaints
about Solaris have very little to do about default locations.

The default locations argument also only applies to software that Sun
is distirbuting, not 3rd party software.

If what you said was true, then the *BSDs, Mac OS X and every other
system should be lambasted for "not using the default location."

> Software by default is built for and goes in /usr, this is how the system
> works, and this is how most all of open source software compiles and
> installs by default.

Many still default to /usr/local.

> > I'm still of the belief that our C++ deps need to go somewhere out of
> > the way or that makes it very clear they're customised for us.
>
> We'll need to disagree on this point then. Me and Stefan were having this
> very conversation today with another engineer, and there is no reason we
> can't have our apache library in /usr/lib along with Sun's. The name is
> different and you need to link with it, just like any other library in
> /usr/lib, to use it.

As long as the name is different, fine. But I still think your
attitude of "screw everyone I know better" stinks.

-- 
Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst
http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/

"To err is human -- and to blame it on a computer is even more so." -
Robert Orben