[Kde-pim] HTML support in Kmail

Sun Nov 8 19:24:35 GMT 2009

Thanks Ingo and Thomas for the clarification.

>The biggest problem with respect to HTML support in KMail is the lack of a
powerful WYSIWYG HTML editor written in Qt that we could use in KMail.

It could sound as insane idea but "the end justifies the means". So what
about to use koffice to compose messages instead of Qt HTML wysiwyg?
Yes I hear people swearing if they will see kmail dependency with koffice
;-) and koffice is not core KDE4 application I suppose, but it would be so
nice. Just same as Outlook uses Word to compose messages, so you can't have
big Outlook without full Office.

But do you really need some HTML editor? Because now, we can compose HTML
messages without any problem, so there definitely is some HTML editor to
compose HTML message in current Kmail.
What I just want is to copy and paste HTML source code of message history to
the end of message which I'm composing in existing HTML editor. Maybe in
same way as we paste signatures or HTML signatures into new message. You
open new message composer and HTML signature is already there. So what about
to do the same with message - take some existing HTML message from inbox and
paste it as it is below signature.

I don't want to edit there anything, just to paste it as it is. It sounds so
simple. All formating is already done, you just need to take it and paste it
into editor which already is HTML capable. It really sounds as easy fix.
What do you think?

> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:58:22 +0100
> From: Ingo Kl?cker <kloecker at kde.org>
> Subject: Re: [Kde-pim] HTML support in Kmail
> To: kde-pim at kde.org
> Message-ID: <200911062058.28354 at thufir.ingo-kloecker.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
>
> On Friday 06 November 2009, nicco ts wrote:
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > this is the first time I'm writing to this mailing list.
> > Normally I wouldn't do that, but it could be the last chance how to
> > speed up some big problem in Kmail.
> > It's kind of special thing, because I know thousands of people don't
> > use it at all (including Kmail developers) and thousands of people
> > who are desperate about that (employees working in Outlook like
> > companies). Yes it is HTML e-mail support.
> >
> > And I must also say, that it has poor level in Kmail comparing with
> > the leading products:
> > 1. Microsoft Outlook
> > 2. Yahoo Zimbra Desktop
> > 3. Mozilla Thunderbird
> > 4. Novell Evolution
> > 5. IBM Lotus Notes
> >
> > The question could appear why I bother you with this if I have 5
> > additional clients I can use. Well, I can tell you, non of them is
> > perfect and have some drawbacks but the main thing is, they are not
> > Qt4 and KDE4 integrated.
> >
> > So is there a latitude to implement HTML into Kmail? Or is it wasting
> > of time to require it?
>
> As far as I know no core developer has an interest in improving the HTML
> support in KMail because there are, in our opinion, much more
> interesting and important things that need improving. Currently, all
> core developers are working on porting KMail to a new backend. There is
> at least one person who sporadically improves the HTML support.
>
> So, unless a developer, who is interested in making HTML support in
> KMail rock, shows up not much will happen in this area. The biggest
> problem with respect to HTML support in KMail is the lack of a powerful
> WYSIWYG HTML editor written in Qt that we could use in KMail. The rich
> text editor that comes with Qt and that we are currently using is way
> too limited.
>
>
> > It's about 2 problems in Kmail:
> >
> > 1) is Bug 207779 which removes empty lines while composing in HTML
>
> This bug should be fixable with the rich text editor we currently use.
>
>
> > 2) is  Bug 86423 when you Reply to HTML e-mail, then formating is
> > destroyed and placed as plain text and even point 1) is applied, so
> > you also lose empty lines.
>
> The reason for this is the lack of a powerful HTML editor. The rich text
> editor has support for a very small fraction of HTML. Thus it's
> difficult or impossible to keep the formatting.
>
>
> > Why it is so important?
> > Because in Outlook like companies e-mail is the main tool and if you
> > discuss something with 10 different people and everybody adds
> > something into history, everything is clearly separated by line from
> > the bottom to the top. So it isn't destroyed into plaintext and
> > fonts, colors, pictures aren't lost. Anytime you look back, then you
> > see what this person wrote you and you can refer to this.
> >
> > I see you guys use separator in RE, which after while looks like this:
> > >>>la
> > >>>
> > >>>>bla
> > >>>>bla
> > >>>
> > >>>la
> > >>>
> > >>>>bla
> > >>>
> > >>>la
> > >>
> > >>ha
> > >
> > >ta
> > >
> > >>hs
> >
> > and attached is Outlook way
>
> So what. KMail supports both styles. Really the only problem is that
> KMail lacks a powerful HTML editor because KDE lacks a powerful WYSIWYG
> HTML editor. That's all. The problem is that such an editor does not
> materialize out of thin air.
>
>
> Regards,
> Ingo
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 21:06:51 +0100
> From: Thomas McGuire <mcguire at kde.org>
> Subject: Re: [Kde-pim] HTML support in Kmail
> To: KDE PIM <kde-pim at kde.org>
> Message-ID: <200911062106.56081.mcguire at kde.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi,
>
> On Friday 06 November 2009 20:58:22 Ingo Kl?cker wrote:
> > > 1) is Bug 207779 which removes empty lines while composing in HTML
> >
> > This bug should be fixable with the rich text editor we currently use.
>
> Actually, I don't see this anymore with trunk, and we now even have a unit
> test for this. I suspect the fix was not backported, though.
>
> > > 2) is  Bug 86423 when you Reply to HTML e-mail, then formating is
> > > destroyed and placed as plain text and even point 1) is applied, so
> > > you also lose empty lines.
> >
> > The reason for this is the lack of a powerful HTML editor. The rich text
> > editor has support for a very small fraction of HTML. Thus it's
> > difficult or impossible to keep the formatting.
>
> The limitation here comes from the template parser which is used for
replies
> and forwards: It is unable to create multipart messages. Once that is
fixed,
> one could at least keep the basic formatting. This works for editing
drafts
> and other messages, it is just that the created replies and forwards don't
> have a HTML part anymore.
>
> Regards,
> Thomas
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