[Kde-extra-gear] Network Management to extragear/network

[Aaron J. Seigo]

On November 5, 2009, Will Stephenson wrote:
> On Wednesday 04 November 2009 22:51:16 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > I think it's a good idea. Maybe kdebase is even a better (I consider
> > >  connecting to networks basic functionality), but as you note, upstream
> > >  (networkmanager, connman, wicd, ...) might require intermediate
> > > releases. We could probably still do those, even if we end up in
> > > kdebase, of course.
> >
> > yes, i don't see how being in kdebase means no interim releases.
> 
> I'm against kdebase for several reasons. 

i will completely leave its destination up to the people working on it. i'd 
just like you to consider what is written here and, most importantly, see if 
we can (together) get this released somewhere, anywhere in time for 4.4 :)

> I reject the trend to move
> everything that might be construed as basic functionality to kdebase -

thankfully this isn't the SOP plasma follows.

the idea behind putting the things we do in kdebase/workspace/plasma/ (as 
opposed to addons or extragear) is to provide the pieces that people using a 
system of a given type (desktop, netbook, screensaver; mobile and media center 
coming) would just expect to be there and be rather surprised if it isn't. 
it's the "on first log in, what do i expect" set.

> KDE
> works just fine without a NetworkManager,wicd,connman client on a desktop
>  with static networking,

KDE also works just fine on a system without a battery. or without the need 
for switching between multiple desktops (the pager). or without the ability to 
insert CDs or plug in devices.

but we have defined those items as "basic functionality the majority of people 
take for granted as being there when they first log in".

contrast with, say, bluetooth. when we get a good plasmoid for that (hello 
kfluid? :) that will almost certainly go into addons. it's very important, 
critical even, for certain use cases. but bluetooth is not basic functionality 
the majority of people take for granted as being available by default when 
they first log in.

>  and on several other platforms which have their
>  own networkmanagement stacks.

moot point: it would be going into workspace/. 
 
> No-one will ignore or not find KNM if it's in extragear.

by these same generalizations we could put the system tray, tasks widget, 
pager, etc in extragear. 

we don't provide many bells and whistles, just the basics for a "this shell is 
complete". 

which would bring us the question of whether or not networking is considered 
optional. i'd suggest it's less "optional" than a battery monitor given that 
the set of systems that have networking is, with some fuzziness around the 
edges, a superset of systems with batteries.


> And my experience was that Kopete moving to main modules at that point in
>  its lifecycle killed innovation.

i fail to see the link between a chronically unreleased plasmoid and a full IM 
app. i don't know if there was a connection between people ceasing to work on 
kopete and its movement into a main module. we can compare ideas and notes 
about this on irc sometime maybe, and maybe there was a contributing factor 
connection. but drawing these kinds of parallels between knm and kopete are 
imho shaky at best.

it also ignores the fact that plasma in kdebase has been keeping it's pace of 
innovation up just fine.

>  If we did interim releases as well as
>  kdebase releases we'd always be competing with the main module releases,
>  as well as trying to figure out whether 'I use knetworkmanager on 4.3.3'
>  in a BR meant the copy shipped with 4.3.3 or a later interim release.

if it is outside of a KDE SD (software distribution) module, "what version of 
knm" will be an issue no matter what. so this is a moot point.

-- 
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Development Frameworks
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