[kde-linux] Kmail Problems. Was: Installing KDE4 on Sid

[Gaffer.]

Hi Anne,

On Wednesday 30 January 2008 17:31, Anne Wilson inscribed thus:
> On Tuesday 29 Jan 2008, Gaffer. wrote:
> > On Tuesday 29 January 2008 22:46, Anne Wilson inscribed thus:
> > > Does the ISP use more than one server?  Can this be deduced by
> > > looking at headers?
> >
> > Yes there are quite a few of them.  This outfit also owns AOL.
>
> I was wondering whether the headers could say whether one or more
> of the servers were prone to this.  The problem, of course, is that
> it's time-consuming for you to keep examining headers on clients'
> mail.
>
> > > And there's nothing in the logs to explain it?
> >
> > Nothing!  Except for one instance where Kmail announced that it
> > couldn't connect to SMTP transport <server-name>.  Then the next
> > try simply did nothing at all.
>
> Stuff happens :-)  I doubt if it's related to this problem.
>
> > > Are they on systems that have stopped working properly, or new
> > > installs of  SuSE 10.3 that have had problems from the first?
> >
> > So far they have all been working just fine from the word go
> > until recently.
> >
> > I'll do a new build tomorrow, time permitting and run it till it
> > breaks.
>
> Hmm - long enough to test that it works before updating, then see
> what happens when you update?  At least this time you will be able
> to keep a diary on it. It should be possible to prove/disprove that
> particular theory.
>
> > > Have you noticed anything similar about the messages that turn
> > > up very late? The only time I've seen this happen was when I
> > > had a misconfiguration that stopped system mail being forwarded
> > > to me.  I assume that your problem is quite different, but if
> > > you've recently fixed any problem, even seemingly unrelated, it
> > > should be considered.
> >
> > No I didn't think about it!  Only that the dates were months ago
> > and only the odd ones.
>
> That's the sort of thing that makes you want to kick yourself :-) 
> The significance only becomes obvious when it's too late.
>
> > What really bugs me out is that when you mention Linux, they turn
> > into zombies.  I actually had one help desk berk that said "We
> > don't support that, its not a proper system"  When I asked to
> > speak to his supervisor he hung up on me.
>
> Fear, of course.  The unknown is terrifying, and FUD has done a
> great job. However, after a couple of days of chasing this I
> finally got to someone who can do more than read a script.  He's
> not admitting that they should have spotted it earlier, but he said
> there must have been a stale session.  The connection is restored.
>
> > > Is it possible, from logs or simply from headers of messages,
> > > to ascertain whether there is any correlation with dates of the
> > > SuSE updates?
> >
> > I don't know.  Where does SuSE log this information to?
>
> I don't know SuSE at all.  I'd guess that you should find it
> somewhere under /var, but I can't get you any nearer, sorry.
>
> > > I think, from your answers, that they are all pulling down mail
> > > directly from the ISP, not from a server set up by you.  Is
> > > that right?  I'm thinking that if it is there probably isn't an
> > > awful lot of log output that can help.  Most of it is at server
> > > level, not client.  Just thinking aloud.
> >
> > Yes you are right, these are all coming from the ISP's servers. 
> > I was tempted to become an ISP and run my own servers.  Consensus
> > was that nobody wanted to pay for it.
>
> I can believe that.  Unless you can save them money, no-one wants
> to know.
>
> > > I have a tendency to think pebcak when I find myself with a
> > > problem like this. It's not at all unusual for me to find that
> > > I have a typo, maybe a repeated character, in my config files.
> >
> > My favourite is to put a comma instead of a period.  I'd be well
> > off if I got paid every time I make that booboo.
>
> AOL :-)
>
> > I'll keep at it.
>
> Let us know how it goes.
>
> Anne

I put a machine together this morning and installed SuSE 10.3 on it.  
I then setup two Email accounts.  One to my own ISP and one to Gmail.

Then I did test mails between the two.  First from my ISP to Gmail.  
That works just fine so did a round robin (ISP back to ISP).   Then I 
sent a mail through Gmail to my ISP no problem at all.

So after several successful tests, no updates at this point. I had to 
sort out another job.

When I returned I decided to send another test mail via my ISP......  
It stayed in the outbox !??  I tried to send it several times.  No 
way would it go.

I ran a quick check on the other machine (SuSE 10.2) no problems.

So I tried to delete the mail in the outbox.  But it wouldn't delete.  
After trying several times is just vanished all by itself.

At this point I can no longer send any mail.  (still no updates)

The only way I can get the machine to send any mail again is to delete 
all the indexes for the outbox and sent boxes.  I noted that there 
remained a copy of the stuck mail in both folders. I had to delete 
these first.

I found that I could reproduce the problem by unplugging the network 
cable so that the network disappeared just after a mail check had 
been done.

I am becoming convinced that there is some kind of software race 
condition involved, since when the problem happens the mail involved 
either disappears or is not deleatable other than going into .kmail 
and removing them and the indexes manually.

Its been a frustrating day !  ;-) 

-- 
Best Regards:
             Derrick.