[Kde-games-devel] Gsoc

[Albert Astals Cid]

El Dilluns, 27 de maig de 2013, a les 19:04:52, Roney Gomes va escriure:
> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Albert Astals Cid <aacid at kde.org> wrote:
> > What do you mean by "KDE Games doesn't get the right attention from the
> > KDE
> > community."?
> 
> Reduced number of mentors is a sign of that. You can say it happens
> just because people are not interested in the project. That's right,
> and justifies my point. We lack contributors and we need the help of
> the community to fix this problem.
> 
> >> We lack
> >> leadership, we have no goals, we have no measures to attract more
> >> people to us. We had a maintainer, but he disappeared without
> >> explanation and a few ideas and goals have also gone with him.
> > 
> > All of that is true. How do we fix it?
> 
> Not so simple to answer. But I believe this debate is a good
> beginning. Maybe from here we can begin to address those problems one
> by one; proposing solutions and committing ourselves to work on them.
> 
> >> See, I'm also frustrated and at least irritated about how the project
> >> has been treated in the last months.
> > 
> > What do you mean "how the project has been treated in the last months."?
> 
> The same meant in the first paragraph. See, if it wasn't you reviewing
> every patch that comes here what would be of this project? We need
> contributors and we need help to seek them.
> 
> >> GSoC was the best chance I had to
> >> work on something I really enjoy as well as an opportunity to keep my
> >> studies going.
> >> 
> >> Like you, I didn't pass. That's OK, I won't argue against it. What
> >> disappoints me the most is that I didn't get a single reply to the
> >> e-mails I sent to the dev list,
> > 
> > Well, you bypassed that list and went to look for people with kdegames
> > experience (you don't expect a kdepim devel mentoring kdegames, right?)
> > outside of the kdegames mailing list, what kind of answer where you
> > expecting to get?
> 
> Sure, I did not expect to get an answer from the kdepim people.
> Please, don't try to make your point accusing me of stupidity. That's
> not how gentleman talk.

I'm not trying to accuse you of anything. I'm not a gentleman either, just a 
plain guy. I'm just saying that it's hard for someone to be a mentor of a 
project he is not developer of, hence the lack of answers on kde-devel, it was 
worth a try, but it was doomed to fail.

> I sent an e-mail to the dev list for I saw that we would have no
> mentors but Viranch. As I was willing to get a mentor, I sent an
> e-mail to the list I believe has more audience. I also talked to
> Viranch privately, but he hadn't the time nor the interest to back me
> up.

What do you mean by "back you up"? He is mentoring one project, you can't 
blame him for not taking the huge amount of work that is mentoring two 
projects (actually in KDE GSOC we totally try not to have anyone mentoring two 
projects, one is a hell lot of work already)

> >> not to mention that -- AFAIK -- we've
> >> got only one mentor this year. This project deserves more and I wish I
> >> could do more to the games I decided to maintain.
> > 
> > I wish we had more developers too, how does one find them? That's the hard
> > question.
> 
> That's really hard, I know. I may not be the more indicated person to
> manage a big project like ours, but I believe we could make a campaign
> in order to solve that problem. Let's improve our website, let's sell
> ourselves better.

Good, you have ideas, let's make them reality :-)

> 
> >> The only feedback I got was someone questioning me why I did not plan
> >> to work with QML. Well, did we discuss about that already?
> > 
> > Discuss about what?
> 
> Come on. Isn't it clear enough? I was talking about discussing the
> decision of porting the games to QML. That's it

There is no such "decision", as said some games seem to be well fit to be in 
QML and people is willing to work on it, so why not do it?
 
> >> Is it a consensus that all games are going to be ported to QML anyway?
> > 
> > QML is a technology that may help some games. Might not help some others.
> > 
> >> How things are decided in this project?
> > 
> > this == "kdegames"? Well, they are decided as in all the KDE projects, a
> > mixture of mailing lists, irc, etc. and the mithycal "the one who does the
> > work decides [more than the one that doesn't do the work]"
> 
> Yes, KDE Games. The context makes it very clear.
> 
> Anyway, you didn't really answer my question as you provided me the
> "where", not "how". I know decisions are taken here and on IRC etc.
> The thing is: we haven't discussed anything in the last months.

Right, I didn't have anything to discuss (basically I am just reviewing stuff 
because noone else seems to be available to do it). If you or anyone else did 
have anything you wanted to discuss why you didn't bring it up?

> 
> >> How transparent and open about GSoC KDE is?
> > 
> > You said you weren't arguing but you are now throwing accusations of not
> > being transparent and open, care to elaborate?
> 
> I'm not, at any moment, saying that I should be approved and that I
> believe the decision about it is unfair and so on. I'm not
> complaining.
> 
> Raising a doubt is far away from being the same as "throwing an
> accusation". If informations such as numbers of slots available for
> each project, how KDE evaluates the activity of each project during
> GSoC etc. are publicly available, then please, give me a link to it
> and there will be no more questions on this topic.

Ask the GSoC organizers about that info, I'm only tangentially involved as a 
mentor for Okular.

> >> Are there projects receiving more slots for their "importance"?
> > 
> > Other projects are receiving more slots because they have more mentors,
> > maybe you could have decided to be a mentor and BOOM! we might have ended
> > up with double the GSOCs.
> 
> I really wish I could have done that, but it wasn't possible for
> reasons I believe are of nobody's interest.
> 
> Anyway, from your quick and short answers to all of my questions --
> not to mention that unnecessarily ironic "BOOM" up there -- it's very
> clear how eager you are to ridicule me without actually trying to
> prove a point.

No, I'm not trying to ridicule anyone, I am giving short and concise answers 
because that's my style, if you don't like it, though luck, I'm already 31 and 
that's not going to change.

Now, basically you are saying that we don't have enough developers and yes, 
that's easy to see, what we have to do is fix it. And to be honest I'm already 
strecthing my involvement too much in trying to review evertything that comes 
into this list, so if others have ideas and time, let's try to get them 
implemented.

Cheers,
  Albert

> 
> If it's impossible to have this conversation here, then please, ignore
> this e-mail and let's to better things with our time.
> --
> Roney
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